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Earthstar – A database for private, distributed, offline-first applications

earthstar-project.org

31–40 of 46 posts

Re: Earthstar – A database for private, distributed, offline-first applications

#31
post #3

Not entirely following what this is? A document and media database of some sort with lots of JavaScript involved somehow? Aimed at something vaguely self-host-ish? With mastodon-ish replication to peer nodes? Seems like there is an ambitious grand vision happening here of sorts but not quite seeing it.

I came to comment this.

What's the use case?

How would I use it?

Why would I want to use it?

Definitely some interesting features but the vision seemed lost in their listing.

Re: Earthstar – A database for private, distributed, offline-first applications

#33
post #3

Not entirely following what this is? A document and media database of some sort with lots of JavaScript involved somehow? Aimed at something vaguely self-host-ish? With mastodon-ish replication to peer nodes? Seems like there is an ambitious grand vision happening here of sorts but not quite seeing it.

The distributed part of Earthstar seems like the selling point? Otherwise, it certainly does not have the range of database capabilities of either PGlite or SQLite, which also work offline, store data locally, and work in the browser. What do you get from the distributed nature of Earthstar? Backup? That's pretty simple with both SQLite and PGlite too, so I'm not sure I see a big benefit for most db users. The win seems to come from people who want to store data on their machines AND share that data with other individuals who also get local copies. Maybe this is for pirating content?

Re: Earthstar – A database for private, distributed, offline-first applications

#34
post #33
post #3

Not entirely following what this is? A document and media database of some sort with lots of JavaScript involved somehow? Aimed at something vaguely self-host-ish? With mastodon-ish replication to peer nodes? Seems like there is an ambitious grand vision happening here of sorts but not quite seeing it.

The distributed part of Earthstar seems like the selling point? Otherwise, it certainly does not have the range of database capabilities of either PGlite or SQLite, which also work offline, store data locally, and work in the browser. What do you get from the distributed nature of Earthstar? Backup? That's pretty simple with both SQLite and PGlite too, so I'm not sure I see a big benefit for most db users. The win se…

It could be useful for, for instance, sharing photos with family, meeting notes, etc. Doesn't have to be piracy.

Re: Earthstar – A database for private, distributed, offline-first applications

#35
post #34
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The distributed part of Earthstar seems like the selling point? Otherwise, it certainly does not have the range of database capabilities of either PGlite or SQLite, which also work offline, store data locally, and work in the browser. What do you get from the distributed nature of Earthstar? Backup? That's pretty simple with both SQLite and PGlite too, so I'm not sure I see a big benefit for most db users. The win se…

It could be useful for, for instance, sharing photos with family, meeting notes, etc. Doesn't have to be piracy.

So, for people who are paranoid about using the services that are designed for these sorts of sharing, like Dropbox, GDrive, GPhotos, and a million others? These theoretical people would suffer the frustrations of setting up and managing their own db for the added privacy? I wonder what they have in those photos and meeting notes that is so sensitive?

Re: Earthstar – A database for private, distributed, offline-first applications

#36

I believe this is superseded by the Willow protocol [0] which was posted here a while back. I tried to read about Willow, but could never make heads or tails of it [1]. It seems to be a hierarchical key value store with a bunch of extra fields for timestamps and cryptographic tokens, but it's woefully short on working examples. Even the recent Rust library [2] is effectively a bunch of abstract classes with implement…

The website literally says "Earthstar has a new specification powered by Willow." in a banner at the very top

Re: Earthstar – A database for private, distributed, offline-first applications

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did they sunset?

Web SQL, which was Chrome's implemented proposal to add SQLite to the JavaScript standard library. Chrome said they scrapped it because SQLite wasn't really intended to be used in a security environment as hostile as the web. Mozilla did not implement it because it's not any kind of standard subset of SQL and no such subset is agreed upon while also useful. They didn't want to tie web standards, supported features in…

I heard that since there’s only one SQLite vendor and nothing else comparable to allow for multiple options, they wouldn’t support it.

I would like to hear more about the hostile environment comment. I thought they sandboxed every page. Cross origin data theft?

Re: Earthstar – A database for private, distributed, offline-first applications

#38
post #35
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be useful for, for instance, sharing photos with family, meeting notes, etc. Doesn't have to be piracy.

So, for people who are paranoid about using the services that are designed for these sorts of sharing, like Dropbox, GDrive, GPhotos, and a million others? These theoretical people would suffer the frustrations of setting up and managing their own db for the added privacy? I wonder what they have in those photos and meeting notes that is so sensitive?

I don't use any of those services, though I used to use Dropbox for sharing family reunion photos with older relatives who didn't have the technical skills to do much more than click links to download photos. I am also not a potential user of Earthstar's product.

>I wonder what they have in those photos and meeting notes that is so sensitive?

As someone who is actively working on documenting my family history using photos, original copies and reproductions of official documents, old paper letters and copies of letters, I can say that the dominant reason that I do not use any of those "services that are designed for these sorts of sharing, like Dropbox, GDrive, GPhotos, and a million others" because none of the things that I am working with are any of anyone else's business.

Using many of those "services" grants perpetual ownership and license to use anywhere, forever to the service operator and should that service collapse for any reason their only asset is the contact info and personal data that their customers have chosen to entrust them with.

Frankly speaking here, I have been using computers for a long time and the most dominant recent trend among tech-bros has been to conjure an app or service to con people into paying SaaS fees even if they stop using the app or service. There are fewer apps available that can be bought as a pay once use it forever app.

I'm not interesting in playing anyone's con games and the software industry is full of them as many here note whenever someone does a new "Show HN" post. Oftentimes some of the first comments note for other interested parties that there is a requirement to give an email address to test the app or to register an account just to be able to see for ourselves what it does and whether it is truly useful.

I'm not interested in helping fund someone's second or third or fourth income stream when it requires handing control of something I own outright to a third party who will make every attempt to monetize every part of the transactional relationship that develops when a user registers an account.

I do not trust companies or individuals to have my best interests in mind when I am using their products or services.

Since the materials that my family members have collected and preserved for generations can't be replaced and we are not trying to write books or shoot films about any of the individuals who may have led interesting lives it is none of anyone else's business what the photos depict or what the documents tell us about how each branch of the tree connects to an individual's trunk.

The archive of the work I'm doing will be available to my family members. Some of them unfortunately use social media to keep in touch with friends and family. I can't control what they do with the results of my work but I can control everything up to the point where I distribute it and it's my decision to keep it all local on storage that I own and control.

The tone of your last sentence is accusatory and, like this last sentence of mine is out of place.

Re: Earthstar – A database for private, distributed, offline-first applications

#39
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll suggest maybe tailscale is what you are looking for to share with family a VLAN

Adding on to this: you can host your own Tailscale-compatible server with Headscale, if you want to be totally independent.

I’m going to dig into Headscale with Authelia for OIDC, that’s pretty close to what I was imagining, found this tutorial [0] (wow posted just 4 days ago). Thanks ya’ll.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/1ic1w4q/headsca...

Re: Earthstar – A database for private, distributed, offline-first applications

#40

I would recommend instead jellyfin, immich, and maybe just plain sftp for all the rest. You can sync (err, become distributed) by way of git, syncthing, or rsync. What I haven't seen yet is a good self hosted identity manager, SSO sort of thing. I believe bluesky is working on one but I dont know if it will be self hostable (Freudian autocorrect: self hostage) Another thing I haven't figured out yet with my homelab/p…

Isn't this a library for building your own applications? I don't see how jellyfin etc is relevant here. By "good" identity management I guess you mean something other than OpenLDAP or 389? Not sure how well these work with Windoze if you care about that. Being your own CA is easy. Installing that CA in all the machines you want to is the sucky bit. It all works if you use let's encrypt. Wireguard can let you join two…

I see what you mean, I was just going off the byline Works offline.Store music, photos, video.Actually delete stuff.Temporary documents.Live syncing.Use one or many identities.Sneakernets.Always self-hosted.

I’ve been struggling creating clientside certs for mTLS, seems like it will work for most browsers that let you install certs, but not for an app (like the immich and jellyfin apps) so I’ll probably end up with a VPN solution, easy enough to tell my sister to open this app and hit the button before trying to connect.

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