Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's true, and interpretability is helpful for AI safety.
Indeed. What's cool is that we were able to localize literal "regions" in the GPTs which encoded toxic concepts related to racism, politics, etc. A similar video can be found here: https://toponets.github.io More work is being done on this as we speak.
TopoNets: High performing vision and language models with brain-like topography
31–40 of 76 posts
Re: TopoNets: High performing vision and language models with brain-like topography
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
This makes me remember game developers back when games could still be played directly from the physical disc. They would often duplicate data to different parts of the disc, knowing that certain data would often be streamed from disc together, so that seek times were minimized. But those game devs knew where everything was spatially on the disc, and how the data would generally be used during gameplay. It was consist…
This brings to mind The Story of Mel from programming folklore. http://beza1e1.tuxen.de/lore/story_of_mel.html
Re: TopoNets: High performing vision and language models with brain-like topography
#33The main reason topography emerges in physical brains is because spatially distant connections are physically difficult and expensive in biological systems. Artificial neural nets have no such trade-off. So what's the motivation here? I can understand this might be a very good regularizer, so it could help with generalization error on small-data tasks. But hard to see why this should be on the critical path to AGI. A…
Re: TopoNets: High performing vision and language models with brain-like topography
#34The main reason topography emerges in physical brains is because spatially distant connections are physically difficult and expensive in biological systems. Artificial neural nets have no such trade-off. So what's the motivation here? I can understand this might be a very good regularizer, so it could help with generalization error on small-data tasks. But hard to see why this should be on the critical path to AGI. A…
If the problem of training and inference on neural networks can be optimized so that a topology can be used to keep closely related data together, we will see huge advancements in training and inference speed, and probably in model size as a result.
And speed isn't just speed. Speed makes impossible (not enough time in our lifetime) things possible.
A huge factor in Deepseek being able to train on H800 (half HBM bandwith as H100) is that they used GPU cores to compress/decompress the data moved around between the GPU memory and the compute units. This reduces latency in accessing data and made up for the slower memory bandwith (which translates in higher latency when fetching data). Anything that reduces the latency of memory accesses is a huge accelerator for neural nets. The number one way to achieve this is to keep related data next to each other, so that it fits in the closest caches possible.
Re: TopoNets: High performing vision and language models with brain-like topography
#35I know quite a bit about machine learning, but very little to nothing about neuroscience and human cognition, so I am curious how an expert (that didn't work on the paper) would describe it.
(Forgive me for the pre-emptive negativity but I am so utterly exhausted by dishonest comparisons to sapient thought in the field of artificial intelligence that it has nearly drained me of the incredible amount of enthusiasm I used to carry for it.)
Re: TopoNets: High performing vision and language models with brain-like topography
#36The main reason topography emerges in physical brains is because spatially distant connections are physically difficult and expensive in biological systems. Artificial neural nets have no such trade-off. So what's the motivation here? I can understand this might be a very good regularizer, so it could help with generalization error on small-data tasks. But hard to see why this should be on the critical path to AGI. A…
Locality of data and computation is very important in neural nets. It's the number one reason why training and inference are as slow as they are. It's why GPUs need super expensive HBM memory, why NVLink is a thing, why Infiniband is a thing. If the problem of training and inference on neural networks can be optimized so that a topology can be used to keep closely related data together, we will see huge advancements…
Having said that it would be fun to see things like rearrangement data moves based on temerature of silicon parts after training cycle.
Re: TopoNets: High performing vision and language models with brain-like topography
#37Re: TopoNets: High performing vision and language models with brain-like topography
#38This is excellent. Since reading https://books.google.de/books/about/Models_of_the_Mind.html?... I've been expecting someone to start looking back into biology to try to move forward. I guess the poster is one of the authors. Kudos!
Re: TopoNets: High performing vision and language models with brain-like topography
#39The key insight we discovered was that explicitly enforcing brain-like topographic organization (as some academic work attempts - such as this one here) isn't necessary - what matters is having the right functional components that parallel biological visual processing. Our experience showed that the key elements of biological visual processing - like hierarchical feature extraction and temporal integration - emerge naturally when you build architectures that have to solve real visual tasks.
The brain's organization serves its function, not the other way around. This was validated by the real-world performance of our synthetic visual cortex in the Tesla FSD stack.
Link to the 2021 Tesla AI day talk: https://www.youtube.com/live/j0z4FweCy4M?t=3010s
Re: TopoNets: High performing vision and language models with brain-like topography
#40I spent time working with Andrej and the rest of the FSD team back in 2020/2021, and we had plenty of conversations on how human visual processing maps onto our neural network architectures. Our approach—transformer-based attention blocks, multi-scale feature extraction, and temporal fusion—mirrors elements of the biological visual cortex (retina → LGN → V1 → V2 → V4 → IT) which break down raw inputs and integrate th…
It is amazing, that the synthetic pipeline, that was build to mimick the brain, seems to mimick the brain?
That sounds a bit tautological and otherwise I doubt we have really understood how our brain exactly interprets the world.
In general this is definitely interesting research, but worded like this, it smells a bit hyped to me.