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Why Children's Books?

lrb.co.uk

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Re: Why Children's Books?

#31

Post by nindalf »

Ichthypresbyter wrote: post #26
nindalf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not convinced by the author's thesis. But I'm also not convinced by your defence of Narnia. It's 4 white British middle class kids (Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy) who have the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. I'm happy that you were able to identify with these characters. But for the many, many people who prefer to read stories about people like themselves and can't identify with P…

>the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. Children of all social classes were evacuated- the slum child evacuated to a prosperous country farmhouse is practically a trope, while some children of wealthy families stayed in London. The only thing that decided whether children went or not was their parents' choice. Though the Pevensies are relatively privileged in that they have a (EDIT: famil…

The Pevensies were very privileged.

This makes sense, because Lucy was a stand-in for Lewis’ goddaughter. It wouldn’t have made sense for her to be working class.

The Pevensies were from Finchley, a wealthy area of London at the time.

Unlike working class children who had to stay with any random family, these kids got to stay in a mansion owned by an uncle.

Peter and Susan go to boarding school in later books.

Even the way they speak - that’s how posh kids speak.

Yeah obviously, just the act of getting out of London doesn’t mean they’re poshos. Everything else about them indicates that though.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#32

Post by nindalf »

dambi0 wrote: post #28
nindalf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not convinced by the author's thesis. But I'm also not convinced by your defence of Narnia. It's 4 white British middle class kids (Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy) who have the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. I'm happy that you were able to identify with these characters. But for the many, many people who prefer to read stories about people like themselves and can't identify with P…

I don’t know that describing evacuation as a privilege for middle class children is strictly accurate.

Evacuation to a private residence belonging to an uncle. A mansion at that.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#33

Post by graemep »

Ichthypresbyter wrote: post #26
nindalf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not convinced by the author's thesis. But I'm also not convinced by your defence of Narnia. It's 4 white British middle class kids (Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy) who have the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. I'm happy that you were able to identify with these characters. But for the many, many people who prefer to read stories about people like themselves and can't identify with P…

>the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. Children of all social classes were evacuated- the slum child evacuated to a prosperous country farmhouse is practically a trope, while some children of wealthy families stayed in London. The only thing that decided whether children went or not was their parents' choice. Though the Pevensies are relatively privileged in that they have a (EDIT: famil…

You are right in principle, but the mansion does not seem to be owned by an uncle, and there is no indication they were related at all. He is to referred throughout the book as "the professor".

The Pevensies are definitely middle class kids. The sort of kids an academic like Lewis would have known in real life, and probably reflecting the real Lucy's family's circumstances.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#34

Post by pmyteh »

dangerlibrary wrote: post #3

This paywall product must have required a staggering amount of work. And yet, the entire text of the article is right there in the network tab. Why send it over the wire, then try to hide it?

It's (deliberately) a very soft paywall. The LRB offers a certain number of articles for free then hope to attract subscribers, but it's only really a semi-commercial proposition. The whole thing has been subsidised by the editor for decades; my suspicion is that they're much more interested in being read than being paid.

FWIW I'm a subscriber at least in the main because I want it to exist. Most months I don't read more than I'd get for free anyway. But it's gloriously chewy content of a kind that you can't quite find anywhere else.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#35

Post by alt227 »

te_chris wrote: post #14

Excellent essay. I hadn’t taken it seriously until I had my own but it’s crazy how variable kids books can be. The stats at the end about access for the poorest are heart breaking. My son loves his books and it’s so nice to see.

I dont know about other coutries, but here in the UK reading is a serious thing for kids. There are libraries in every village and town, and there are regular drives and events to get kids interested in reading.

They give stickers to the kids every time they go, give them free books to keep, and allow things like dropping your books back to any other library ino the area, and renewing them online.

I had previously thought that libraries in the UK were dying, but since having kids I have come to realise that they are still an incredibly useful resource, and are still alive and well.

Also, the schools get really involved. In the last school term my kids primary has had 2 kids book authors visit to do talks and read their books to the kids. Regularly the kids come home with new free books provided by some council/government funded initiative or other.

The UK feels to me to really be on top of this issue. Hopefully other countries can see how important these resources are and not let them die anywhere.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#36

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

graemep wrote: post #33
Ichthypresbyter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. Children of all social classes were evacuated- the slum child evacuated to a prosperous country farmhouse is practically a trope, while some children of wealthy families stayed in London. The only thing that decided whether children went or not was their parents' choice. Though the Pevensies are relatively privileged in that they have a (EDIT: famil…

You are right in principle, but the mansion does not seem to be owned by an uncle, and there is no indication they were related at all. He is to referred throughout the book as "the professor". The Pevensies are definitely middle class kids. The sort of kids an academic like Lewis would have known in real life, and probably reflecting the real Lucy's family's circumstances.

Sorry, I got confused- it's the professor who stays with an uncle as a child in The Magician's Nephew.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#37

Post by fergie »

graemep wrote: post #20

I think she places too much importance on this: "British children’s books have often taught other truths – that the best thing you can be is white, upper or middle class, and if you are a girl, quiet. " Firstly, there are many exceptions. For example, Aravis in CS Lewis's The Horse and His Boy is neither white nor remotely quiet - she is aristocratic. The Telmarine descended characters in the later books in the serie…

When I was at school in Scotland in the 80s it was a recognised problem that too much of the available childrens literature centred on wealthy kids who went to boarding school.

Its ironic therefore that when an impoverished Scottish single mother, JK Rowling, wrote the most successful childrens books of all time in the ´90s, that they centred on wealthy kids who went to boarding school.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#38

Post by dambi0 »

nindalf wrote: post #32
dambi0 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know that describing evacuation as a privilege for middle class children is strictly accurate.

Evacuation to a private residence belonging to an uncle. A mansion at that.

They may have enjoyed more privileged accommodation upon being evacuated, but their being evacuated was not a privilege, if that what we want to call it.

Re: Why Children's Books?

#39

Post by amiga386 »

nindalf wrote: post #23
graemep wrote: post #20

I think she places too much importance on this: "British children’s books have often taught other truths – that the best thing you can be is white, upper or middle class, and if you are a girl, quiet. " Firstly, there are many exceptions. For example, Aravis in CS Lewis's The Horse and His Boy is neither white nor remotely quiet - she is aristocratic. The Telmarine descended characters in the later books in the serie…

I am not convinced by the author's thesis. But I'm also not convinced by your defence of Narnia. It's 4 white British middle class kids (Peter, Susan, Edmund and Lucy) who have the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. I'm happy that you were able to identify with these characters. But for the many, many people who prefer to read stories about people like themselves and can't identify with P…

> privilege

You live in a city the Nazis are going to bomb. Your family and your home is almost certainly going to be blasted to smithereens. The government has evacuated you - unaccompanied - to some strangers, and it doesn't care who these strangers are, so long as they volunteer to put you up.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-evacuated-children-of-the...

That is not privilege. Privilege is being able to sit behind a computer screen and face no real threats to your life. (Part of what made 9/11 so tragic for Americans, beyond the indiscriminate killing of thousands of innocent people, is the Americans thought they were untouchable until that point. It ripped a hole in their national psyche and they've never really recovered)

Similar evacuations and displacement are happening around the world. There are still millions of Syrians living in temporary camps in Turkey and Lebanon, for years. There are over 6 million Ukranians displaced within Ukraine, and millions living in Poland and other countries -- where they are at the mercy of those who offer them a home: https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/2022/not-a-single-safe-pla...

Do you think of this as privilege ? How many times have you been bombed out of your home?

Re: Why Children's Books?

#40

Post by [deleted] »

nindalf wrote: post #31
Ichthypresbyter wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the privilege of being sent to the country during a dangerous time. Children of all social classes were evacuated- the slum child evacuated to a prosperous country farmhouse is practically a trope, while some children of wealthy families stayed in London. The only thing that decided whether children went or not was their parents' choice. Though the Pevensies are relatively privileged in that they have a (EDIT: famil…

The Pevensies were very privileged. This makes sense, because Lucy was a stand-in for Lewis’ goddaughter. It wouldn’t have made sense for her to be working class. The Pevensies were from Finchley, a wealthy area of London at the time. Unlike working class children who had to stay with any random family, these kids got to stay in a mansion owned by an uncle. Peter and Susan go to boarding school in later books. Even t…

[deleted]
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