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Interview with DeepSeek Founder: We're Done Following. It's Time to Lead

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Re: Interview with DeepSeek Founder: We're Done Following. It's Time to Lead

#31

Post by LelouBil »

falcor84 wrote: post #20

It's a great interview throughout, but I was thrown off by this strange question (which I found to be much more interesting than the answer): > An Yong: What do you envision as the endgame for large AI models? I don't know if it has a different meaning/connotation in Chinese, but reading this metaphor with a Chess connotation scared me. If there is a game, who are the players? what is the victory condition? will ther…

Isn't "endgame" a common expression to mean "the end", "the place where there's no progress anymore" etc ?

Re: Interview with DeepSeek Founder: We're Done Following. It's Time to Lead

#32

Post by jonplackett »

ben30 wrote: post #5

Its success stems from a refreshingly unconventional approach to innovation. Liang Wenfeng's philosophy of maintaining a flat organizational structure where researchers have unrestricted access to computing resources and can collaborate freely. What's particularly striking is their deliberate choice to stay lean and problem-focused, avoiding the bureaucratic bloat that often plagues AI departments at larger companies…

This sounded a lot like Valve’s company structure/lack of structure.

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/apps/valve/Valve_Handbook_Lo...

Sounds like an exciting place to work.

Re: Interview with DeepSeek Founder: We're Done Following. It's Time to Lead

#34

Post by skellera »

falcor84 wrote: post #20

It's a great interview throughout, but I was thrown off by this strange question (which I found to be much more interesting than the answer): > An Yong: What do you envision as the endgame for large AI models? I don't know if it has a different meaning/connotation in Chinese, but reading this metaphor with a Chess connotation scared me. If there is a game, who are the players? what is the victory condition? will ther…

It’s a pretty common phrase for “what’s the ultimate goal?”

I don’t think it’s meant to be taken as a chess metaphor.

Re: Interview with DeepSeek Founder: We're Done Following. It's Time to Lead

#35

Post by CharlieDigital »

bko wrote: post #29
CharlieDigital wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model you described probably works great (not just in AI) as long as it's not your primary and direct source of revenue with which you must pay back investors. Once it becomes your primary and direct source of revenue and you must generate some returns for investors or meet some revenue targets, then whatever you're doing somehow has to align with that revenue stream (often ruining the fun).

You're describing a lot of tech companies like Google that had all these different orgs that were money sinks not related to a direct source of revenue and funded by dominance in search and high margins. And these programs didn't necessarily yield great creative products. Quite the opposite. Whereas if you have some objective measure that's driving your decisions, like revenue or customer engagement (proxy for useful…

Having the right culture is easier said than done.

The enshittification of nearly everything can largely be attributed to the difficulty of maintaining that culture of open-ended creation without direct accountability to revenue.

Re: Interview with DeepSeek Founder: We're Done Following. It's Time to Lead

#36

Post by nialv7 »

ben30 wrote: post #5

Its success stems from a refreshingly unconventional approach to innovation. Liang Wenfeng's philosophy of maintaining a flat organizational structure where researchers have unrestricted access to computing resources and can collaborate freely. What's particularly striking is their deliberate choice to stay lean and problem-focused, avoiding the bureaucratic bloat that often plagues AI departments at larger companies…

I think most of what's said here has value. But be wary of the survivorship bias. There are also a ton of flat, lean, problem-focused and curiosity driven startups that _don't_ succeed. Their success definitely has a lot to do their talent and how they work, but also a lot of luck, too.

Re: Interview with DeepSeek Founder: We're Done Following. It's Time to Lead

#37

Post by falcor84 »

skellera wrote: post #34
falcor84 wrote: post #20

It's a great interview throughout, but I was thrown off by this strange question (which I found to be much more interesting than the answer): > An Yong: What do you envision as the endgame for large AI models? I don't know if it has a different meaning/connotation in Chinese, but reading this metaphor with a Chess connotation scared me. If there is a game, who are the players? what is the victory condition? will ther…

It’s a pretty common phrase for “what’s the ultimate goal?” I don’t think it’s meant to be taken as a chess metaphor.

While less figurative, I don't see how "what's the ultimate goal for large AI models" makes it less scary.

Some of it might have to do with my having recently watched Dune Prophecy (set in the aftermath of the Butlerian Jihad) but this recent rapid progress in AI is putting me in somewhat of an apocalyptic mindset.

Re: Interview with DeepSeek Founder: We're Done Following. It's Time to Lead

#38

Post by falcor84 »

LelouBil wrote: post #31
falcor84 wrote: post #20

It's a great interview throughout, but I was thrown off by this strange question (which I found to be much more interesting than the answer): > An Yong: What do you envision as the endgame for large AI models? I don't know if it has a different meaning/connotation in Chinese, but reading this metaphor with a Chess connotation scared me. If there is a game, who are the players? what is the victory condition? will ther…

Isn't "endgame" a common expression to mean "the end", "the place where there's no progress anymore" etc ?

Sorry, am I the only one who finds this sort of formulation in regard to large AI models existentially intimidating?

Re: Interview with DeepSeek Founder: We're Done Following. It's Time to Lead

#39

Post by AndyNemmity »

falcor84 wrote: post #20

It's a great interview throughout, but I was thrown off by this strange question (which I found to be much more interesting than the answer): > An Yong: What do you envision as the endgame for large AI models? I don't know if it has a different meaning/connotation in Chinese, but reading this metaphor with a Chess connotation scared me. If there is a game, who are the players? what is the victory condition? will ther…

It didn't sound awkward or weird to me at all. I think you took a very common word, and then extrapolated it out in a chess context when it's nothing to do with a chess context.

Re: Interview with DeepSeek Founder: We're Done Following. It's Time to Lead

#40

Post by fngjdflmdflg »

oli5679 wrote: post #2

I think this project is awesome and am quite disappointed with some cynical commentary from large American labs. Researcher at Meta or OpenAI spending hundreds of millions on compute, and being paid millions themselves, whilst not publishing any of their learnings openly, here a bunch of very smart, young Chinese researchers have had some great ideas, proved they work, and published details that allow everyone else t…

Why did you group Meta with OpenAI here?
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