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We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

linuxserver.io

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Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#31

Post by concerndc1tizen »

whois wrote: post #20
concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

Your response feels in bad faith. Docker is the default registery. That gives them n amount of responsibility. Not to mention organizations should be accountable for their bad behavior. Don't give them a pass.

Your position is one of presumed entitlement, where you rely on services being provided because the outcry of not doing it would be costly.

So you're right in that sense. It's essentially blackmail: free services in exchange for staying silent.

I think it's unhealthy.

And I argue that we need properly funded, independent services, with clear motives.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#32

Post by noja »

concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

Isn’t docker the one getting free stuff?

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#33

Post by TZubiri »

sealeck wrote: post #11
concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

This is really a question of framing. The other way you can look at it is: Docker has benefitted from a community adopting its products, and developing software that makes Docker more useful. As someone who sells Docker services, you benefit from a greater market size. It's like how WordPress have benefitted from people authoring plugins – even though wordpress.org has hosted them for "free", this has been good comme…

"Docker has benefitted from a community adopting its products,"

It takes a whole lot of mental gymnastics to argue that a provider of free services is actually the one benefitting from that interaction, and not the other way around.

Go ahead and build your systems on free dependencies like WordPress and Debian, but just get real and don't pretend that you are better than professionals that build business relationships and actually pay for their software dependencies like RHEL and Webflow.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#34

Post by robertlagrant »

concerndc1tizen wrote: post #6

If you don't like it, then why don't you use a different provider? If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff? Storage, compute, and traffic, isn't free. You've been the beneficiary of charity for years. Yes, the open source community has relied on this implicit charity as a parasite, by exploiting whatever free services they could. And now we're paying the price, as you sa…

> My suggestion is therefore that we need independent solutions, that are fully funded as a charity, and stop relying on freemium services from corporations that fundamentally don't care about the public good.

We had that already, but none of them invented Docker.

> If you want free stuff, is your strategy to smear them into giving you more free stuff?

They seem happy to pay; they were complaining (validly) about the process of renewing DSOS.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#35

Post by TZubiri »

arccy wrote: post #30
TZubiri wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or run no registry. Here's a port from a Dockerfile to just a vm: FROM Debian CMD apt-get install thing CMD curl blabla/install.sh Pretty much converts to: aws-cli ec2 launch-instance ssh user@server apt-get install thing ssh user@server curl blabla/install.sh In general, everytime you dispense of a high level abstraction, the solution is not to replicate the high level abstraction, but to build directly at a lower l…

and who hosts that Debian image you're starting from....

AWS

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#36

Post by tuyiown »

akudha wrote: post #22

I don’t understand why companies/people don’t respond. Apply for a job, they talk to you for months and stop suddenly. Go on multiple dates, then the person stops responding. Etc. A simple polite “we’re not moving forward with your application” email is better than silence. How hard can it be to show some basic decency and courtesy?

I think you're underestimating how explicit rejection triggers awful behavior to seemingly way too many people, so one can be wary of releasing it, plus the fact that rejecting others is not easy for people, automating it seems dehumanizing, so the things stays as they are, so silence it is.

I've been related several times about people that wanted explicit reasons of why they've been rejected, and ending up mad at the (perceived as dishonest) hard truths they've been told, and anything said delicately can be dismissed, seen as cryptic or even displayed as hypocrisy.

Courtesy is hard, and all are not well equipped to see it when it's given.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#37

Post by the-grump »

TZubiri wrote: post #7
ricardbejarano wrote: post #2

Run your own registry.

Or run no registry. Here's a port from a Dockerfile to just a vm: FROM Debian CMD apt-get install thing CMD curl blabla/install.sh Pretty much converts to: aws-cli ec2 launch-instance ssh user@server apt-get install thing ssh user@server curl blabla/install.sh In general, everytime you dispense of a high level abstraction, the solution is not to replicate the high level abstraction, but to build directly at a lower l…

Yeah, no.

I'm not only using containers to deploy my VPSes.

Thank you for trying.

P.S. at least use something declarative and provider-agnostic like terraform.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#38

Post by TZubiri »

thomasfedb wrote: post #18
TZubiri wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or run no registry. Here's a port from a Dockerfile to just a vm: FROM Debian CMD apt-get install thing CMD curl blabla/install.sh Pretty much converts to: aws-cli ec2 launch-instance ssh user@server apt-get install thing ssh user@server curl blabla/install.sh In general, everytime you dispense of a high level abstraction, the solution is not to replicate the high level abstraction, but to build directly at a lower l…

The article is about DockerHub, not Docker. Containers aren’t the only solution to every problem but they’re a decent hammer for a lot of nails.

One of the core arguments is that DockerHub is the default for Docker. The article shows that the URL for dockerhub is baked into Docker and is used when no registry is specified.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#39

Post by Kovah »

I'm absolutely stunned by all the negative comments in here bashing the Linuxserver project. "Run your own registry", "you get everything for free be grateful", and so on. What the hell is wrong with you?

They are a couple of guys trying to make software more accessible to thousands of people. Indeed it's a large project and one may question if they should get _everything_ for free. But that's not the point of this article. The article is about the absolutely horrendous behaviour of the company running Docker Hub. And I totally relate to this as I applied for a project of mine, too. How they run their open source program, it feels nothing more like presenting themselves as the big open source supporters, but in fact they make it extra hard for those who already maintain software for free.

Re: We Need to Talk About Docker Hub

#40

Post by saagarjha »

TZubiri wrote: post #33
sealeck wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really a question of framing. The other way you can look at it is: Docker has benefitted from a community adopting its products, and developing software that makes Docker more useful. As someone who sells Docker services, you benefit from a greater market size. It's like how WordPress have benefitted from people authoring plugins – even though wordpress.org has hosted them for "free", this has been good comme…

"Docker has benefitted from a community adopting its products," It takes a whole lot of mental gymnastics to argue that a provider of free services is actually the one benefitting from that interaction, and not the other way around. Go ahead and build your systems on free dependencies like WordPress and Debian, but just get real and don't pretend that you are better than professionals that build business relationship…

I mean, paying for your software dependencies doesn’t automatically make things any better.
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