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I got a heat pump and my energy bill went up

heatpumped.org

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Re: I got a heat pump and my energy bill went up

#31

Post by 8fingerlouie »

Personally i save about 75% with my heatpump over my old gas furnace.

We used around 1500m3 - 1800m3 worth of natural gas per year, and for the past couple of years we've used between 4000kWh and 5000kWh on the heat pump per year.

Granted, natural gas is expensive in Denmark, and while electricity is also normally expensive, if you have electrical heating you're excempt from paying taxes on electricity usage above 4000 kWh per year.

Currently, with heat pump and an EV, i'm paying less in electricity per year than i did in natural gas before.

Re: I got a heat pump and my energy bill went up

#32

Post by BeefWellington »

rayiner wrote: post #10

I don’t know where this person is, but electricity is wildly expensive in many places. On a cold day, a good heat pump might give you say a COP of 2. So with 5 kW, you get out 10 kW of heat, or 35,000 BTU/hour. In say MA, at $0.25 per kWh retail, that’s $1.25/hour. In Boston, natural gas costs $1.5/therm, which is 100,000 BTUs. With a 96% efficient condensing boiler, you’re looking at $0.55/hour for the same 35,000 B…

PG&E is basically California, where it can hit north of $0.50/kWh pretty regularly.

I think it's worth noting in this article too that the author mentions they can now heat and cool parts of their house they weren't previously, so I'm gonna guess their actual usage went up and this is basically surprise for no reason.

Re: I got a heat pump and my energy bill went up

#33

Post by nottorp »

tommiegannert wrote: post #28

Transparency is great, but let's not forget that the point of switching to electricity is to be able to use renewables. We only have one nice planet to live on, and there are others who want to keep being able to live comfortably on it, I've heard. Oil/gas is a potent drug that is difficult to vane off of. (Arguably solar/battery has the same problem as oil: let's dig and refine stuff from the ground, and not care ab…

That sounds good and altruistic...

... for the high income techies that make most of the HN audience.

Ask a normal person how they feel about paying for the heat pumps and having an extra hundred or two on their ongoing heating bill and you may get a different answer. Up to and including them not being able to cut expenses anywhere else to compensate for this.

Re: I got a heat pump and my energy bill went up

#34

Post by lm28469 »

dangus wrote: post #4

This is both hard to explain to people and hard to get them onboard even once it's been explained and understood. I think more people should think about things this way: I'm building a house now, so am I betting that in 30 years the price of gas will decrease or increase? Will electricity decrease or increase in price? Anyone who has seen a graph of solar, battery, wind, and other renewable power grid solution costs…

> I think more people should think about things this way:

Seeing the monstrosities people build I think we have a long way to go

Re: I got a heat pump and my energy bill went up

#35

Post by nottorp »

8fingerlouie wrote: post #31

Personally i save about 75% with my heatpump over my old gas furnace. We used around 1500m3 - 1800m3 worth of natural gas per year, and for the past couple of years we've used between 4000kWh and 5000kWh on the heat pump per year. Granted, natural gas is expensive in Denmark, and while electricity is also normally expensive, if you have electrical heating you're excempt from paying taxes on electricity usage above 40…

> while electricity is also normally expensive, if you have electrical heating you're excempt from paying taxes on electricity usage above 4000 kWh per year

:) So it can be done with state subsidies, but worldwide even the one time bonuses for EVs are being canceled. States aren't likely to give up on even more revenue.

Re: I got a heat pump and my energy bill went up

#36

Post by nottorp »

mapt wrote: post #2

I wanted to read this, but not enough to make an account. Whoever is publishing this blog should consider whether a $0 paywall is worthwhile.

Interesting; by the time i read this i didn't get asked for an email. 7 hours later than your post.

The author has seen the light? :)

Re: I got a heat pump and my energy bill went up

#37

Post by amanaplanacanal »

nottorp wrote: post #33
tommiegannert wrote: post #28

Transparency is great, but let's not forget that the point of switching to electricity is to be able to use renewables. We only have one nice planet to live on, and there are others who want to keep being able to live comfortably on it, I've heard. Oil/gas is a potent drug that is difficult to vane off of. (Arguably solar/battery has the same problem as oil: let's dig and refine stuff from the ground, and not care ab…

That sounds good and altruistic... ... for the high income techies that make most of the HN audience. Ask a normal person how they feel about paying for the heat pumps and having an extra hundred or two on their ongoing heating bill and you may get a different answer. Up to and including them not being able to cut expenses anywhere else to compensate for this.

Yes but... the externalities are really expensive, and are going to be paid by somebody. It's a hidden cost

Re: I got a heat pump and my energy bill went up

#38

Post by westmeal »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #37
nottorp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds good and altruistic... ... for the high income techies that make most of the HN audience. Ask a normal person how they feel about paying for the heat pumps and having an extra hundred or two on their ongoing heating bill and you may get a different answer. Up to and including them not being able to cut expenses anywhere else to compensate for this.

Yes but... the externalities are really expensive, and are going to be paid by somebody. It's a hidden cost

What about in the case of a township offering "natural gas"/methane that would ordinarily be lost to the atmosphere anyway? Isn't it better to burn it rather than leave it as is? Methane is pretty awful stuff in terms of the greenhouse effect.

Re: I got a heat pump and my energy bill went up

#39

Post by nottorp »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #37
nottorp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds good and altruistic... ... for the high income techies that make most of the HN audience. Ask a normal person how they feel about paying for the heat pumps and having an extra hundred or two on their ongoing heating bill and you may get a different answer. Up to and including them not being able to cut expenses anywhere else to compensate for this.

Yes but... the externalities are really expensive, and are going to be paid by somebody. It's a hidden cost

Agreed, but you only tend to accept that when the other needs in that famous pyramid are taken care of.

Regulation that increases cost of living is only going to cause resentment and we already see where that leads to.

Can't do it with feel good statements, you need the authorities to support/push towards cheaper electricity. Like the Denmark poster said elsewhere on this thread. Is this going to happen globally? I somehow don't think so...

Re: I got a heat pump and my energy bill went up

#40

Post by torginus »

nottorp wrote: post #33
tommiegannert wrote: post #28

Transparency is great, but let's not forget that the point of switching to electricity is to be able to use renewables. We only have one nice planet to live on, and there are others who want to keep being able to live comfortably on it, I've heard. Oil/gas is a potent drug that is difficult to vane off of. (Arguably solar/battery has the same problem as oil: let's dig and refine stuff from the ground, and not care ab…

That sounds good and altruistic... ... for the high income techies that make most of the HN audience. Ask a normal person how they feel about paying for the heat pumps and having an extra hundred or two on their ongoing heating bill and you may get a different answer. Up to and including them not being able to cut expenses anywhere else to compensate for this.

You can DIY an usable solar setup, complete with battery, for a couple thousand euros, panels and inverters are already quite cheap and the battery prices is coming down.

If you have the space to put it, you can be self-sufficient for most of the year. Equipment is VAT-free in Germany and Austria, too.

The big problem with solar, is that winter days are cold and dark, so when you need heating the most, it's the least available.

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