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Issues with color spaces and perceptual brightness

johnaustin.io

31–40 of 67 posts

Re: Issues with color spaces and perceptual brightness

#31
So as a guy with protanomaly, the biggest shock for me when I got my colorlite glasses¹ was that the traffic signs with bright blue and dark red colors suddenly looked dark(er) blue with very bright red. I asked my (normal vision) friends how they experienced those traffic signs and it was the latter. The lenses corrected for that.

It was actually quite shocking how much more sense most color choices in art and design made to me, which was a much bigger reason for me to keep wearing the glasses than being able to distinguish red, green and brown better than before. The world just looks "more balanced" color-wise with them.

While it was very obvious early on in my life that I experienced most green, red and brown colors as ambiguously the same (I did not know peanut butter was not green until my early thirties), the fact that there also were differences in perceptual brightness had stayed completely under the radar.

¹ And yes, these lenses do work, at least for me. They're not as scummy as enchroma or other colorblind-"correcting" lenses, for starters you can only buy them after trying them out in person with an optometrist, who tests which type of correction you need at which strength. Ironically their website is a broken mess that looks untrustworthy[0]. And their list of scientific publications doesn't even show up on Google Scholar, so they probably have near-zero citations[1]. But the lenses work great for me.)

[0] https://www.colorlitelens.com/

[1] https://www.colorlitelens.com/color-blindness-correction-inf...

Re: Issues with color spaces and perceptual brightness

#32

So as a guy with protanomaly, the biggest shock for me when I got my colorlite glasses¹ was that the traffic signs with bright blue and dark red colors suddenly looked dark(er) blue with very bright red. I asked my (normal vision) friends how they experienced those traffic signs and it was the latter. The lenses corrected for that. It was actually quite shocking how much more sense most color choices in art and desig…

One of the most useful tools in my arsenal, is Sim Daltonism[0]. It's Apple-only, but I'm sure there are similar tools for Windows and Android.

[0] https://michelf.ca/projects/sim-daltonism/

Re: Issues with color spaces and perceptual brightness

#34
I once had an app that used a lot of colored bars with text labels on top of them, and I wanted a programmatic way to determine if a color should use black text or white text because R+G+B over some threshold was not working. I stumbled upon the YIQ color space where Y is the perceived luminance. Under 128 got a white text, over 128 got black text. Worked like a charm.

Y = 0.299 * R + 0.587 * G + 0.114 * B

Re: Issues with color spaces and perceptual brightness

#35
There's the strange phenomenon that people like to say "bright red" as much as it is an oxymoron.

#ff0000 is, in terms of brightness, pretty dark compared to #ffffff yet there is a way it seems to "pop out" psychology. It is unusual for something red to really be the brightest color in a natural scene unless the red is something self-luminous like an LED in a dark night.

Re: Issues with color spaces and perceptual brightness

#36
post #18

I've always found these "perceptual vs absolute" things about human senses very interesting. Hearing has a few quirks too: - When we measure sound pressure, we measure it in log (so, every 3dB is a doubling in sound pressure), but our hearing perceives this as a linear scale. If you make a linear volume slide, the upper part will seem as if it barely does anything. - The lower the volume, the less perceivable upper a…

I stumbled upon this when visualizing music. It is very interesting how everything is kind of non linear, like you mention. I had to increase low frequencies and then I got stuck trying to bucket frequencies. It seems humans have different fidelity for different ranges of frequencies

Try the Mel or Bark scales :-)

Re: Issues with color spaces and perceptual brightness

#37
This is something photographers and filmmakers had to (and sometimes still have to) deal with when shooting on black-and-white film, surely? (Though maybe B&W film sometimes has noticeably different responses to light at different visible frequencies, which might happen to counter this, or to heighten it?) There’s a long history of using colour lens filters with B&W film.

Re: Issues with color spaces and perceptual brightness

#38
Not even wrong, in the Pauli sense: lightness is not brightness, red is dark in terms of lightness, you're looking for chroma to be represented in lightness which would make it not-lightness. Anything different would result in color blind people seeing it differently.

Re: Issues with color spaces and perceptual brightness

#39
post #8

This is part of "tone mapping"[1] in high dynamic range rendering. The idea is that pixels are computed with a much larger range of values than screens can display. 16 bits per color per pixel, or even a floating point value. Then, to generate the displayed image, there's a final step where the pixel values are run through a perceptual transformation to map them into 8 bit RGB (or more, if the hardware is is availabl…

this is why Google's HCT color space has both a Tone as adjustment and device environment as a color adjust.

hey, I made that! I wish the environment adjust was used, but it's not. Tone in HCT is ""just"" the L* criticized in the article (opinionated comment on that here, TL;DR: talking about color sucks, lightness/brightness are loaded terms, and the article is off-base due to it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42738943)

Re: Issues with color spaces and perceptual brightness

#40

See Oklab colorspace for an attempt at fairer perceptual brightness: https://bottosson.github.io/posts/oklab/

A significant mis-step - naively eschewed actual lightness, the thing that dictates what people actually perceive, because people outside the field regularly conflate brightness and lightness.
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