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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#31

Post by ars »

9283409232 wrote: post #19
ars wrote: post #4

I credit Trump's pressure on Hamas - Hamas eventually softened a lot of their positions because they realized they had no choice. And I wish Biden had done a better job of supporting Israel, this war could have ended a lot sooner if Hamas had realized that the entire world was pressuring them to surrender. Instead the message got diluted with support for Palestinians, which Hamas interpreted as support for themselves…

> Did you hear a single call by any country for Hamas to surrender? I didn't. US, UK, France, Germany, Italy in a joint message: https://it.usembassy.gov/joint-statement-on-israel/ Spain: https://www.politico.eu/article/pedro-sanchez-spain-humanita... Italy, France, Germany ask for EU sanctions to force Hamas surrender: https://www.reuters.com/world/italy-france-germany-call-ad-h... Secretary of State calls out other…

The first two links are just weak platitudes. The 3rd link is a year old and the sanctions never happened. The last one is just Blinken talking, not a serious demand.

So I maintain what I said.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#33

Post by ChocolateGod »

Supermancho wrote: post #10
coob wrote: post #2

Are either Israelis or Gazans more secure than when this war began? What has either side achieved?

Israel has a bunch of land that is politically and practically simpler to annex, than before. Israel is more secure by far, knowing that the US will continue to fund them even in the face of being convicted of humanitarian crimes.

> being convicted of humanitarian crimes.

The UN and ICC have both shown they're absolutely powerless and useless.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#34

Post by hrjat »

rgmarkh wrote: post #16
optymizer wrote: post #3

How is this hacker news? From the HN guidelines: Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. *If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.*

It is news because several newspapers credit the achievement to Trump and his envoy Witkoff. Ha'aretz has more on this, but it's paywalled so here is another one: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/with-epic-deal-... This is not just Trump bragging and taking credit, search other sources.

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#35

Post by ars »

nick_ wrote: post #24
bpodgursky wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you concretely suggest what each side should have done at some point in time, to avoid being where we are now? I feel like you're making a rhetorical statement that's hard to map to specific actions.

Oh please. Israelis could have voted in a different party/leader that would have taken another path. West Bank settlement expansions could have been halted and reversed (to a sensible degree of course). These are bread and butter suggestions that everyone who thinks honestly about this conflict sees clearly. There are of course many more suggestions I didn't state. To pretend that there was just no way to avoid this…

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#36

Post by whatshisface »

rgmarkh wrote: post #16
optymizer wrote: post #3

How is this hacker news? From the HN guidelines: Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. *If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.*

It is news because several newspapers credit the achievement to Trump and his envoy Witkoff. Ha'aretz has more on this, but it's paywalled so here is another one: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/with-epic-deal-... This is not just Trump bragging and taking credit, search other sources.

US foreign policy does not actually change when the administration does.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#37

Post by hackyhacky »

rgmarkh wrote: post #16
optymizer wrote: post #3

How is this hacker news? From the HN guidelines: Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. *If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.*

It is news because several newspapers credit the achievement to Trump and his envoy Witkoff. Ha'aretz has more on this, but it's paywalled so here is another one: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/with-epic-deal-... This is not just Trump bragging and taking credit, search other sources.

> This is not just Trump bragging and taking credit, search other sources.

This claim is not justified by the link you provide. What evidence do you have to support it?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#38

Post by FireBeyond »

steviedotboston wrote: post #15
coob wrote: post #2

Are either Israelis or Gazans more secure than when this war began? What has either side achieved?

Hamas has been considerably weakened. Their arsenal of rockets and weapons is depleted. At the beginning of the war thousands of rockets were being shot into Israel and now there are very few and the ones that are are quite crude. Hezbollah entered the war immediately and said the only way they would exit is if Hamas exists. Israel retaliated, killed their leader, decimated their forces, and negotiated a ceasefire th…

> Israel's main adversary is Iran. They are the ones who fund and supply Hamas

Well, Israel started and has been funding Hamas (I'm assuming, but who knows, that it stopped with this war) since the PLO/Arafat days to the tune of (at times tens of) millions a month.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#40

Post by breppp »

verdverm wrote: post #22
steviedotboston wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas has been considerably weakened. Their arsenal of rockets and weapons is depleted. At the beginning of the war thousands of rockets were being shot into Israel and now there are very few and the ones that are are quite crude. Hezbollah entered the war immediately and said the only way they would exit is if Hamas exists. Israel retaliated, killed their leader, decimated their forces, and negotiated a ceasefire th…

Israel has likely also created multiple generations of anger and hate against themselves. They may have reduced the likelihood of another Oct 7 in the near term, but 50 years is not something I would count on

Probably the most efficient way of creating multiple generations of anger and hate is letting a radical terrorist movement control 2 million people, which can completely mold the education curriculum and free to draft anyone to their quasi-army

So whatever it has done, it cannot possibly be worse than pre-war

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