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Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

tomshardware.com

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Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#31

Post by andy_ppp »

j_walter wrote: post #21
lysace wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Taiwan prohibited export of this kind of know-how? What did I miss?

They have adopted a n-2 type of rule for advanaced tech...but as of yesterday they seem to have relaxed this rule and approved transfer of 2nm from Taiwan fabs to the AZ fab at some point in the near future. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/tsmc-cleared-for-2nm-p...

Wow I did not know this and it is fantastic news, surprised Taiwan allowed this as they see chips as being the most important reason America would intervene if they were invaded.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#32

Post by ttul »

dgfitz wrote: post #6
datadrivenangel wrote: post #2

These chips are still sent to Taiwan for packing, so it's a good step but not a complete step.

Until 2027, yes. https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/gpus/tsmc-is-repo... "TSMC does not have an advanced packaging facility in the U.S., and its partner Amkor will only start packaging chips in Arizona in 2027. As a result, Blackwell AI silicon produced in Arizona will need to be shipped back to Taiwan for final assembly, as all of TSMC's CoWoS packaging capacity remains in Taiwan."

Given that there may be a 25% chance that China invades Taiwan by 2030, having the ability to package SOTA chips in the US by 2027 seems "soon enough".

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#33

Post by whimsicalism »

andy_ppp wrote: post #31
j_walter wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have adopted a n-2 type of rule for advanaced tech...but as of yesterday they seem to have relaxed this rule and approved transfer of 2nm from Taiwan fabs to the AZ fab at some point in the near future. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/tsmc-cleared-for-2nm-p...

Wow I did not know this and it is fantastic news, surprised Taiwan allowed this as they see chips as being the most important reason America would intervene if they were invaded.

I'm a China dove and I'd favor full-throated defense of Taiwan in any invasion (much more so than Ukraine) regardless of chips.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#34

Post by zanderwohl »

j_walter wrote: post #21
lysace wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Taiwan prohibited export of this kind of know-how? What did I miss?

They have adopted a n-2 type of rule for advanaced tech...but as of yesterday they seem to have relaxed this rule and approved transfer of 2nm from Taiwan fabs to the AZ fab at some point in the near future. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/tsmc-cleared-for-2nm-p...

Advanced lithography is like if a mystery cult were real: Secret knowledge only understood by the most learned initiates, tightly-guarded process, etching symbols that do things...

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#35

Post by digdigdag »

- Over 50% of the workers flew in from Taiwan to work on this plant and make these chips.

- The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability.

Made in america is a hard sell. But at least showing the glaring STEM field gap in the U.S. is a start to finally addressing the brain drain.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#36

Post by zeusk »

krisoft wrote: post #25
fblp wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm suprised they can't ship (flat) packaging that could be used in Arizona with a simple assembly line. If they had that packaging design then for this to make financial sense the two way shipping (and loading, unloading, custom clearance etc) would have to be less than shipping the packaging, the setup cost per unit cost of putting the chip in a box

Wait, wait. In the context of semiconductor manufacturing packaging does not mean what you think it means. It is not putting the product in a paper box. It is about cutting the wafer into individual chips, wire bonding the silicone to pins, and covering the whole thing with epoxy. Here is a video which explains it better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gg2eVVayA4 It would be indeed crazy if they would ship the read…

The packaging in this context is not wire bonding but CoWoS - chip-wafer and wafer-wafer bonding.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#37

Post by caycep »

digdigdag wrote: post #35

- Over 50% of the workers flew in from Taiwan to work on this plant and make these chips. - The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability. Made in america is a hard sell. But at least showing the glaring STEM field gap in the U.S. is a start to finally addressing the brain drain.

isn't packaging tech mostly from american companies like applied mat/lam research? or am I missing something?

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#38

Post by lysace »

j_walter wrote: post #21
lysace wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Taiwan prohibited export of this kind of know-how? What did I miss?

They have adopted a n-2 type of rule for advanaced tech...but as of yesterday they seem to have relaxed this rule and approved transfer of 2nm from Taiwan fabs to the AZ fab at some point in the near future. https://www.extremetech.com/computing/tsmc-cleared-for-2nm-p...

I'd be extremely surprised if Apple is now able to source CPUs for current-gen high-end iPhones from a US fab.

2 gens ago, sure.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#39

Post by drexlspivey »

entropicdrifter wrote: post #17
lysace wrote: post #10

Made using which process? The article doesn't mention this. https://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/log...

The smallest process they've got up and running right now is 4nm, last I checked

So which device will these be for then? I thought Apple stuff are always on the cutting edge node.
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