Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers • Hacker News Board

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#31

Post by SoftTalker » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:11 PM UTC

munchler wrote: post #11

> I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span Video actually shows two cars entering the intersection on yellow lights, which is legal. The rest of the article seems similarly exaggerated. ---- Edit: For those who disagree, please be aware that the stop lines are out of frame, so both cars are already in the intersection before they're visible on the video. You can get a better picture of wha…

Yellow generally means do not enter the intersection unless you are so close that you cannot reasonably stop. It is not legal to enter the intersection if you cannot clear it before the signal turns red. Exact rules and enforcement vary by state.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#32

Post by _cenw » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:11 PM UTC

dleslie wrote: post #13

> Why don’t lights ever sit idle with the pedestrian crossing on and the cars must wait? The author knows the answer as well as most readers do: because the intersection is being designed with cars in mind, not human beings.

I'm about 99% sure that was a rhetorical question so you can ask yourself why we put cars before people.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#33

Post by jagged-chisel » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:11 PM UTC

kaonwarb wrote: post #26

munchler wrote: post #11

> I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span Video actually shows two cars entering the intersection on yellow lights, which is legal. The rest of the article seems similarly exaggerated. ---- Edit: For those who disagree, please be aware that the stop lines are out of frame, so both cars are already in the intersection before they're visible on the video. You can get a better picture of wha…

Just rewatched and agree they both entered on orange, which is legal. This clear misinterpretation makes me question the author's take as a whole. Did they consider that cars also regularly run stop signs? Is it possible that this is, in fact, safer for pedestrians, albeit more frustrating while waiting?

OT, but it fired me up a bit - people that enter the intersection on green or orange awaiting a break to turn left. And then don’t clear the intersection on red. Now they’re in everyone’s way. How do you get them to understand they’ve already “run the light” and just need to move?

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#34

Post by affinepplan » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:11 PM UTC

1970-01-01 wrote: post #21

hombre_fatal wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think pedestrians and cyclists don't realize how car dominant we are?

Correct. They expect safe walking and biking infra to fall from the sky and complain online when it does not.

this is a very uncharitable characterization of communities' desires for safe, quiet, and walkable/bikeable neighborhoods

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#35

Post by TomK32 » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:12 PM UTC

giamma wrote: post #17

alkonaut wrote: post #5

Knew before I clicked: it's a flat 4-way intersection of two large-ish streets where there is ample space for something else. Hint: draw a small circle in the middle of the intersection and take down the damn stop signs.

We should aim at better drivers rather than better intersections, but bad drivers are everywhere. Years ago I worked in a building on the side of a long straight road. The road ended with a blind curve to the right and 100m before the blind curve there was a pedestrian crossing. Even though all drivers knew they would need to brake for the blind curve (it was visible and there were signs) the majority of them used to…

The road design is what causes bad or good driving. The road you describe should narrow before the blind curve so the drivers would (often enough unconsciously) slow down before it. For the pedestrian crossing, small islands that separate the lanes and give pedestrians a safe space will help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bglWCuCMSWc

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#36

Post by CuriousCosmic » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:12 PM UTC

rcpt wrote: post #7

alkonaut wrote: post #5

Knew before I clicked: it's a flat 4-way intersection of two large-ish streets where there is ample space for something else. Hint: draw a small circle in the middle of the intersection and take down the damn stop signs.

Are you talking about roundabouts? Those are a nightmare for pedestrians

Roundabouts aren't perfect but they greatly reduce the speed of traffic at the crossing point (while increasing the overall throughput of the intersection).

Without looking up statistics (and I'd love to be proven wrong here), I'd be willing to guess that roundabouts may result in some marginal increase in minor accidents but massively reduces fatalities or accidents that leave the pedestrian in the ICU.

Additionally with a roundabout the crossing can be moved a few cars down the street away from the roundabout itself so that cars can have line of sight to safely approach the crossing and pedestrians have time to react to incoming vehicles. On top of that proper placement of crossings allows a normal zebra crossing to be upgraded to a pelican, puffin, or toucan crossing without impeding flow of traffic within the roundabout.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#37

Post by SoftTalker » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:12 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #5

Knew before I clicked: it's a flat 4-way intersection of two large-ish streets where there is ample space for something else. Hint: draw a small circle in the middle of the intersection and take down the damn stop signs.

Better: define one street as the thru street and put a stop or yield on the cross-street.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#38

Post by amarcheschi » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:13 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #18

rcpt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about roundabouts? Those are a nightmare for pedestrians

With heavy mixed traffic it's a nightmare for everyone. If pedestrians have the right of way (as they should) and there are a lot of them the whole thing would likely become a permanent traffic jam with almost always one car waiting to turn blocking most of the circle.

here in italy at certain roundabouts we have traffic lights that only work when a pedestrian called them. otherwise, the traffic lights flash a flashing yellow light and as a car you can use the roundabout as if the traffic lights didn't exist.

it's quite useful, if you ask me, it combines the best of both solutions. of course the traffic light has a countdown so if someone presses it immediately after having worked, it will wait for 30sec/1 min before being red again

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#39

Post by UseofWeapons1 » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:13 PM UTC

munchler wrote: post #11

> I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span Video actually shows two cars entering the intersection on yellow lights, which is legal. The rest of the article seems similarly exaggerated. ---- Edit: For those who disagree, please be aware that the stop lines are out of frame, so both cars are already in the intersection before they're visible on the video. You can get a better picture of wha…

I had to look this up. In California in particular, this is true, which surprised me.

Per a random law firm: California’s yellow light law permits drivers to enter an intersection during a yellow light. No violation exists unless any part of the car is over the stopping line when the light turns red. However, the law encourages drivers to slow down before reaching the intersection.

Whereas in, for example, Massachusetts, this would be considered running a red light.

https://www.wccbc.com/red-and-yellow-light-accidents/#:~:tex....

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#40

Post by runako » Tue, Jan 14, 2025, 4:13 PM UTC

munchler wrote: post #11

> I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span Video actually shows two cars entering the intersection on yellow lights, which is legal. The rest of the article seems similarly exaggerated. ---- Edit: For those who disagree, please be aware that the stop lines are out of frame, so both cars are already in the intersection before they're visible on the video. You can get a better picture of wha…

The way I learned this was "in legal, out legal," meaning that you are not allowed to be driving in the intersection while the light is red (aka you have to be finished transiting by the time the light changes).

Is this not the law in California?