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Apple asks investors to block proposal to scrap diversity programmes

theguardian.com

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Re: Apple asks investors to block proposal to scrap diversity programmes

#31

Post by pavlov »

slt2021 wrote: post #13
pavlov wrote: post #5

The thing about DEI is that people seem to think it’s about giving unjust benefits to some specific groups they don’t like, and ignore the fact that it also benefits groups they do like. I don’t think right-wingers have a problem with being more inclusive of veterans or people with disabilities, for example. But progress made for those groups is the baby that now gets thrown out with the DEI bathwater.

the problem is that DEI is not regulated by law and fundamentally is a discrimination. veterans hiring is encoded in Veterans hiring preference Act, disabled people have protections against discrimination in ADA act. There is no law that enforces DEI, its all vibes and fuzzy warm words that lead to discrimination against white men. There is no law, but DEI is being enforced as such - this is the root of the problem.

Enforced how exactly?

You’re contradicting yourself. You say it’s “vibes and fuzzy warm words”, but those can’t be enforced.

Re: Apple asks investors to block proposal to scrap diversity programmes

#32

Post by newsclues »

PedroBatista wrote: post #26
poulpy123 wrote: post #22

I don't care either way since I'm not concerned but I can shake how bizarre and grotesque the switch to and from DEI were. The very recent example of Zuckerberg going full "masculine energy has been neutered by feminine energy" like he is some kind of Andrew Tate influencer is quite unbelievable for the CEO of a 600 billion dollars company

I understand his words and he has a bit of a point in his context. I question his motives, everything he says and the obvious army of “bros” who are just as bad and juvenile as the blue haired woke ones. It’s sad to see most adult dynamics it’s just high school with money and fatter.

Yeah, I didn’t find that part of the conversation with zuck and Rogan to be incorrect.

Essentially I think he was discussing the generalization that men are biased towards action than women.

There are differences between men and women, each having unique strengths and weaknesses, and it’s refreshing that we can be honest about that fact again.

Re: Apple asks investors to block proposal to scrap diversity programmes

#33

Post by slt2021 »

Angostura wrote: post #25
slt2021 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what the conservatives think DEI actually is Speaking as part of a video that aired during a commercial break for the FOX show 9-1-1 about firefighter capabilities, Larson said, "Am I able to carry your husband out of a fire? He got himself in the wrong place" https://www.newsweek.com/lafd-deputy-chief-faces-backlash-pa... DEI means lowering standards to accomodate minorities and discrimination against more qualifie…

DEI means, thinking about your hiring practices and looking hard at yourself if the population of people you hire is out of proportion with the general population. DEI can be implemented badly, but that doesn’t mean that DEI is bad

> if the population of people you hire is out of proportion with the general population.

why it should be in proportion? This argument is flawed as it ignores that not everyone in general population has the same abilities.

You can look at the roster of any top performing NBA team and tell me if their players population represents general population.

Companies and organizations want to hire the best for any given job, and given this preference, there will always be discrepancy btw hired and general population.

In fact the only case when both population would be equal, is if hiring decisions are based on random chance

Re: Apple asks investors to block proposal to scrap diversity programmes

#34

Post by newsclues »

tomlockwood wrote: post #2

I don't quite understand what the conservatives think DEI actually is, because as far as I can tell three women being in leadership positions in the LA fire department is "DEI". It just seems like the new "woke" or "political correctness", and just as vague.

It’s less about the end result and more about the process.

Re: Apple asks investors to block proposal to scrap diversity programmes

#35

Post by inglor_cz »

poulpy123 wrote: post #22

I don't care either way since I'm not concerned but I can shake how bizarre and grotesque the switch to and from DEI were. The very recent example of Zuckerberg going full "masculine energy has been neutered by feminine energy" like he is some kind of Andrew Tate influencer is quite unbelievable for the CEO of a 600 billion dollars company

It was a gesture for preening on the social networks, and now that the winds have changed, they will be trying to buy attention and approval on social networks through something else.

It is also a good indication that DEI doesn't really make money. If DEI was improving the bottom line measurably, as its proponents promise, capitalists would be loath to scrap it entirely. Possibly they would change the name of the program or try to cover it up somehow, but they would keep it, and the people involved, around.

Re: Apple asks investors to block proposal to scrap diversity programmes

#36

Post by blub »

mschuster91 wrote: post #15
slt2021 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what the conservatives think DEI actually is Speaking as part of a video that aired during a commercial break for the FOX show 9-1-1 about firefighter capabilities, Larson said, "Am I able to carry your husband out of a fire? He got himself in the wrong place" https://www.newsweek.com/lafd-deputy-chief-faces-backlash-pa... DEI means lowering standards to accomodate minorities and discrimination against more qualifie…

> DEI means lowering standards to accomodate minorities and discrimination against more qualified white males Women are perfectly capable of working in firefighting, the military or police. I've personally seen a female police officer of barely 1.60m throw a drunk 2m Russian dude on a rampage in a bar fight onto the ground and tie him up alone , about a solid third of the volunteer force in my THW unit are women, a g…

The case of the two policewomen which ran away from a shooting and left their male colleagues to fend for themselves caused quite a stir in Germany. During the trial they said they were deadly afraid and didn’t see how many shooters there were and from where the shots were coming.

Got in their car and left.

I tried to find an equivalent male example, but every newspaper was writing about this particular case.

Re: Apple asks investors to block proposal to scrap diversity programmes

#37

Post by newsclues »

Angostura wrote: post #25
slt2021 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>what the conservatives think DEI actually is Speaking as part of a video that aired during a commercial break for the FOX show 9-1-1 about firefighter capabilities, Larson said, "Am I able to carry your husband out of a fire? He got himself in the wrong place" https://www.newsweek.com/lafd-deputy-chief-faces-backlash-pa... DEI means lowering standards to accomodate minorities and discrimination against more qualifie…

DEI means, thinking about your hiring practices and looking hard at yourself if the population of people you hire is out of proportion with the general population. DEI can be implemented badly, but that doesn’t mean that DEI is bad

Why isn’t DEI being used to hire men in female dominated industries?

Re: Apple asks investors to block proposal to scrap diversity programmes

#38

Post by pavlov »

nailer wrote: post #20
tomlockwood wrote: post #2

I don't quite understand what the conservatives think DEI actually is, because as far as I can tell three women being in leadership positions in the LA fire department is "DEI". It just seems like the new "woke" or "political correctness", and just as vague.

Nobody thinks women being in leadership in the fire department is DEI. Three lesbians being leaders at the same time though (as happened a few years ago) given the small portion of lesbian firefighters seems indicative of bias.

And by this same logic, the Nobel Committee for Physics has an obvious historical bias towards Jews, right? What else could explain 37 Jewish physics Nobel winners in the 20th century?

People can simply be good at something. Maybe lesbian firefighters actually work very hard to overcome the expectations against them.

Re: Apple asks investors to block proposal to scrap diversity programmes

#39

Post by slt2021 »

pavlov wrote: post #31
slt2021 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is that DEI is not regulated by law and fundamentally is a discrimination. veterans hiring is encoded in Veterans hiring preference Act, disabled people have protections against discrimination in ADA act. There is no law that enforces DEI, its all vibes and fuzzy warm words that lead to discrimination against white men. There is no law, but DEI is being enforced as such - this is the root of the problem.

Enforced how exactly? You’re contradicting yourself. You say it’s “vibes and fuzzy warm words”, but those can’t be enforced.

enforced top-down from leaders and decision makers by the "commitment to diversity" and hiring of unqualified people based on diversity representation, not merit.

the most recent example is Kamala Harris: she had the worst primary performance during 2020, but still was selected as VP by Biden and was nominated without primaries again in 2024.

Her electoral results speak for DEI in general, when hiring decision is done by picking the most diverse candidate based on skin-level shallow criteria instead of fair competition (primaries)

Re: Apple asks investors to block proposal to scrap diversity programmes

#40

Post by newsclues »

piva00 wrote: post #17
newsclues wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://newdiscourses.com/2022/04/dei-explained-new-discours... I think this is a quick explanation. Many people on the left complain about the “old boys club” where “white men” hire each other and control all the power without merit for their authority, and DEI seems to be a way to smash the patriarchal old boys club and enforce the new regime where women, and minorities are in control. Shouldn’t the people be wary…

> Shouldn’t the people be wary of any type of authoritarian cabal? Yeah, and how do you expect the status quo authoritarian cabal to be dismantled while they are in power?

Not by replacing one authoritarian cabal with another authoritarian cabal!

If the system isn’t working, fix the system don’t just adapt the broken system to serve your needs.

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