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'So immoral': gig economy workers forced to pay fee to receive their wages

theguardian.com

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Re: 'So immoral': gig economy workers forced to pay fee to receive their wages

#31

Post by stuaxo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19
PittleyDunkin wrote: post #11

> We’re deeply concerned that companies will try to get around the law and continue to exploit vulnerable workers by pretending they are self-employed when they should enjoy the full protection of the law. This is really the crux of the issue: why do we pretend that gig workers don't deserve the same benefits and protections that proper employees do? Even referring to it as a "gig" makes it sound more like a hobby th…

> why do we pretend that gig workers don't deserve the same benefits and protections that proper employees do? Because some—in some cases, many—of them don’t. And in many cases, e.g. healthcare, it’s unclear why we’re still bundling something into employment that properly should be separate. Extending employment protection to gig workers is a simple solution. But it probably leaves many of them worse off than they ar…

This story is from the UK where we healthcare is not bundled up with being employed, so it's even more of an outlier.

Re: 'So immoral': gig economy workers forced to pay fee to receive their wages

#32

Post by whimsicalism »

casenmgreen wrote: post #27
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why do we pretend that gig workers don't deserve the same benefits and protections that proper employees do? Because some—in some cases, many—of them don’t. And in many cases, e.g. healthcare, it’s unclear why we’re still bundling something into employment that properly should be separate. Extending employment protection to gig workers is a simple solution. But it probably leaves many of them worse off than they ar…

> And in many cases, e.g. healthcare, it’s unclear why we’re still bundling something into employment that properly should be separate. This, one million times over. I read an account describing how things came to be as they are. Apparently, it all started during WW2. The Government controlled wages, and so some wages were too high and some too low, and for those set too low, it became difficult to get staff. To make…

yeah basically the only reason we have the current system is due to tax preferencing and any attempt at reform (like Obama’s cadillac tax) is opposed by broad interests

Re: 'So immoral': gig economy workers forced to pay fee to receive their wages

#33

Post by [deleted] »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #23
asdfman123 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but feel the problem is that someone becomes "full time" in the US after exactly 40 hours. I feel like some kind of gradient system would be ideal. Like if you work 10 hours a week you get 25% of the cash value of benefits. That way, a company wouldn't be incentivized to keep them right below the limit.

This is such a great idea that I'm surprised I've never read anyone suggest it in all of my professional life.

[deleted]

Re: 'So immoral': gig economy workers forced to pay fee to receive their wages

#34

Post by stuaxo »

scarface_74 wrote: post #30
PittleyDunkin wrote: post #11

> We’re deeply concerned that companies will try to get around the law and continue to exploit vulnerable workers by pretending they are self-employed when they should enjoy the full protection of the law. This is really the crux of the issue: why do we pretend that gig workers don't deserve the same benefits and protections that proper employees do? Even referring to it as a "gig" makes it sound more like a hobby th…

What is the difference between a “gig worker” and an independent contractor? Jason Snell, the former editor of Macworld went independent after getting laid off from MacWorld. He purposefully put together streams of income consisting of podcasting, writing articles for different magazines - including MacWorld, writing for his own blog and writing technical books. He said out of those, because of the initial laws passe…

It's in your answer: the difference is low wages vs well paid.

Once you get paid the amounts that people are in the "gig economy" it becomes exploitative, people don't have enough to live or to get out of their situation easily.

Re: 'So immoral': gig economy workers forced to pay fee to receive their wages

#35

Post by PopAlongKid »

like_any_other wrote: post #2

Tangential, but I think we're long overdue to fund employee benefits through taxes instead, which employers pay instead of being on the hook for e.g. paid medical/maternity/etc. On average employers would pay as much as now (unless they're abusing loopholes, e.g. gig work), there would be fewer loopholes, and small employers would be 'insured' against potentially ruinous hires - I know a handyman that won't hire an a…

> fund employee benefits through taxes instead

This is already true, at least in part. Not only do employers get to fully deduct the cost of almost all employee benefits from their taxable income, but in most cases (e.g. health insurance) they also do not have to pay their share of employer payroll taxes (Soc. Sec and Medicare tax).

Re: 'So immoral': gig economy workers forced to pay fee to receive their wages

#36

Post by airstrike »

casenmgreen wrote: post #27
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why do we pretend that gig workers don't deserve the same benefits and protections that proper employees do? Because some—in some cases, many—of them don’t. And in many cases, e.g. healthcare, it’s unclear why we’re still bundling something into employment that properly should be separate. Extending employment protection to gig workers is a simple solution. But it probably leaves many of them worse off than they ar…

> And in many cases, e.g. healthcare, it’s unclear why we’re still bundling something into employment that properly should be separate. This, one million times over. I read an account describing how things came to be as they are. Apparently, it all started during WW2. The Government controlled wages, and so some wages were too high and some too low, and for those set too low, it became difficult to get staff. To make…

Same reason why high paying jobs like consultants, bankers, lawyers have a bunch of "perks" associated with those roles

Re: 'So immoral': gig economy workers forced to pay fee to receive their wages

#37

Post by swatcoder »

PittleyDunkin wrote: post #11

> We’re deeply concerned that companies will try to get around the law and continue to exploit vulnerable workers by pretending they are self-employed when they should enjoy the full protection of the law. This is really the crux of the issue: why do we pretend that gig workers don't deserve the same benefits and protections that proper employees do? Even referring to it as a "gig" makes it sound more like a hobby th…

Because the term "gig work" carries a history of being used for skilled tradespeople with high trust and high independence independently selling their work one gig at a time. The professionals maintain high independence by choice and have uncommon, balancing leverage when it comes to negotiating with clients because of the expertise they bring.

The esteem ad other associations of that usage are now given to untrained drivers, personal shoppers, and cashiers because it helps technology firms avoid traditional worker protections.

Re: 'So immoral': gig economy workers forced to pay fee to receive their wages

#40

Post by timewizard »

swatcoder wrote: post #37
PittleyDunkin wrote: post #11

> We’re deeply concerned that companies will try to get around the law and continue to exploit vulnerable workers by pretending they are self-employed when they should enjoy the full protection of the law. This is really the crux of the issue: why do we pretend that gig workers don't deserve the same benefits and protections that proper employees do? Even referring to it as a "gig" makes it sound more like a hobby th…

Because the term "gig work" carries a history of being used for skilled tradespeople with high trust and high independence independently selling their work one gig at a time. The professionals maintain high independence by choice and have uncommon, balancing leverage when it comes to negotiating with clients because of the expertise they bring. The esteem ad other associations of that usage are now given to untrained…

Taking on unskilled gig work is the modern equivalent to moving into a scrip town.
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