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Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

dmarcchecker.app

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Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#31

Some DNS providers suck and only let you set 1024 bit long keys. For example wordpress.com.

1024 is still many orders of magnitude hard to crack than 512. For the record, the last RSA number having been broken was RSA-250 (829 bits) and it took 2700 core-years to crack back in 2020[1]. In comparison, RSA-155 (512 bits) was factorized as early as 1999!

You aren't in danger.

[1]: https://sympa.inria.fr/sympa/arc/cado-nfs/2020-02/msg00001.h...

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#32
post #18
post #6

Could someone help me understand why we're not dramatically ramping up key sizes across the board on all encryption? Not as a solution, but as a buy-some-time measure. Compute is rapidly increasing, there is continuous chatter about quantum and yet everyone seems to be just staring at their belly buttons. Obviously bigger keys are more expensive in compute, but we've got more too...why only use it on the cracking sid…

We are doing that, just not everyone is as concerned by safety and make different tradeoffs against things like ease of use or accessibility. Different applications have different tolerances and that’s fine. If and when anything quantum is able to yield results (I wouldn’t worry much about this), increasing key size is pretty much meaningless, you need to move to other encryption schemes (there’s lots of options alre…

In the case of RSA it's not meaningless to increase key size to fend off quantum computers. Quantum computing vs RSA is a case of being the largest contender, because quantum computing in itself doesn't definitively unravel the integer factorization problem.

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#34
post #25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those 1,700 are easy to find though, just need to dig a bunch of domain names and you'll find plenty vulnerable ones that you can spoof. Yahoo Mail has a market share on the order of 3%. So a black hat could then target a decent chunk of users with @yahoo addresses specifically. Has anyone heard of this being exploited in the wild? Would be interesting to find out whether there are some reputable domains among the 1.…

Your claim that yahoo uses a 512bit key are counterfactual. Please adhere to honesty and good faith arguments.

I never suggested that Yahoo uses 512bit keys, that's a misunderstanding.

The article clearly states that Yahoo is one of the 3 clients that didn't reject 512bit keys the way they should per RFC.

Yahoo Mail inbox users are vulnerable _receivers_ of spoofed emails.

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#35
post #6

Could someone help me understand why we're not dramatically ramping up key sizes across the board on all encryption? Not as a solution, but as a buy-some-time measure. Compute is rapidly increasing, there is continuous chatter about quantum and yet everyone seems to be just staring at their belly buttons. Obviously bigger keys are more expensive in compute, but we've got more too...why only use it on the cracking sid…

Probably because RSA 2048 is not yet broken, and once there we still have RSA 4096 to lean back on which is since quite some time the most common key size for most things using RSA (DKIM being one of the exceptions). In the context of DKIM we're waiting for Ed25519 to reach major adoption, which will solve a lot of annoyances for everyone.

> Probably because RSA 2048 is not yet broken […]

3072 has been recommended by various parties for a few years now:

* https://www.keylength.com

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#37
post #6

Could someone help me understand why we're not dramatically ramping up key sizes across the board on all encryption? Not as a solution, but as a buy-some-time measure. Compute is rapidly increasing, there is continuous chatter about quantum and yet everyone seems to be just staring at their belly buttons. Obviously bigger keys are more expensive in compute, but we've got more too...why only use it on the cracking sid…

Probably because RSA 2048 is not yet broken, and once there we still have RSA 4096 to lean back on which is since quite some time the most common key size for most things using RSA (DKIM being one of the exceptions). In the context of DKIM we're waiting for Ed25519 to reach major adoption, which will solve a lot of annoyances for everyone.

Ed25519 has seen broad adoption in TLS and other stacks that are used pervasively where DKIM is also used. What’s blocking it for DKIM uniquely?

(This isn’t intended as a leading question.)

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#38

Me writing over 14 years ago: https://blog.jgc.org/2010/06/facebooks-dkim-rsa-key-should-b... This was doable 14 years ago for 512-bit keys.

> "Keys of 512 bits have been shown to be practically breakable in 1999 when RSA-155 was factored by using several hundred computers and are now factored in a few weeks using common hardware."

So we went to a few weeks to 8h in 14 years give or take

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#39

Me writing over 14 years ago: https://blog.jgc.org/2010/06/facebooks-dkim-rsa-key-should-b... This was doable 14 years ago for 512-bit keys.

For a number of years it was (non-officially) thought to be a feature to use weak DKIM keys. Some folks argued that short keys allowed you to preserve deniability, since DKIM signatures would only be short-lived and nobody would be able to use DKIM signatures to prove that any email was authentic. (I’m not saying that this is why most companies used short keys, just that there was a general view that short keys were not all bad.)

DKIM deniability is a particular hobbyhorse of mine [1]. These short keys are obviously not the way to achieve it, but I view this kind of thing as a result of the muddled thinking that’s been associated with DKIM and the community’s lack of desire to commit to the implications of an all-email signing mechanism.

[1] https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2020/11/16/ok-googl...

Re: Cracking a 512-bit DKIM key for less than $8 in the cloud

#40

Me writing over 14 years ago: https://blog.jgc.org/2010/06/facebooks-dkim-rsa-key-should-b... This was doable 14 years ago for 512-bit keys.

For a number of years it was (non-officially) thought to be a feature to use weak DKIM keys. Some folks argued that short keys allowed you to preserve deniability, since DKIM signatures would only be short-lived and nobody would be able to use DKIM signatures to prove that any email was authentic. (I’m not saying that this is why most companies used short keys, just that there was a general view that short keys were…

I forget where but someone proposed regularly rotating your DKIM key and publishing old keys for deniability. So you can still use strong keys and provide a level of deniability.
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