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The Aging Programmer [video]

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Re: The Aging Programmer [video]

#31

Post by digging »

paganel wrote: post #11
monsieurgaufre wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're lucking that aging has not impact on programming, then.

I'm not yet 50, I'm "only" in my mid-40s, but for sure advancing in age has had an effect on the way I program code. For sure I won't be able to spend long hours in the night trying to decipher/solve a specific programming problem, I used to do that when I was younger. I also used to type a lot more code, as in, my fingers used to type a lot more, I can't physically afford to do that now because after a certain thres…

Being only in my 30s but also affected by a lot of usually-age-related disability has been a big struggle for me as a programmer. I don't know how typical it actually is, but I guess I skipped the "work way too hard because your body can handle it" phase that appears to build reputation and wealth early in a career. Probably it would have been different if I'd grown up more physically active; I basically hate most sports and other ways of staying healthy and didn't learn their value until it started getting in the way of the things I do love.

Regardless, it's a massive toll on my mental health. Although frequently assured otherwise, I constantly feel like a burden on my team, like I'm unreliable, for being unable to put in the same hours my older coworkers do. As difficult as it is to start now, focusing on developing my physical health is the only way forward.

Re: The Aging Programmer [video]

#32

Post by twh270 »

waffletower wrote: post #28

I don't see the words "standing desk" together in the comments yet. I am using one at the moment and later today I will be sitting. It is important to alternate lest you create new issues IMO.

Yes, 100%. Being immobile is bad, whether you're standing, sitting, or lying down. (Too much strain from movement is bad too, hence RSI for many of us.)

I really enjoy having the flexibility/option of standing or sitting, and IMO a standing desk is one of those purchases that has a 10x payback.

Re: The Aging Programmer [video]

#33

Post by bityard »

PaulHoule wrote: post #17
ddellacosta wrote: post #8

I appreciated this. Lots of solid advice and positive and pragmatic thinking here about aging in the context of being a programmer, and more generally too. I'll take this opportunity to make a related pitch regarding back pain in particular, which can become more of a problem if you are sedentary as so many programmers are: if you have chronic back issues you owe it to yourself to at least check out Stuart McGill's B…

See also https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK539720/ McKenzie's ideas helped me greatly with back pain but did not help with my neck pain I got later. After some years I discovered I had trouble in my jaw which caused referred pain to my neck and shoulders. My dentist recommended a bite guard for my tooth grinding, at which point the pain quickly localized in my jaw and slowly got better -- maybe it hurts a bit one…

Most people should be doing at least some baseline level of both strength training AND cardio. Working around whatever injuries or anatomical issues they have. There's nothing wrong with treadmills.

Re: The Aging Programmer [video]

#34

Post by [deleted] »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #26
monsieurgaufre wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're lucking that aging has not impact on programming, then.

I'm 61 and I'm definitely aware that by many metrics I am a worse programmer than I was 10 years ago. By some other metrics, I'm better, and I could still run circles around most younger programmers in terms of architecture/system design. But it absolutely has an impact.

[deleted]

Re: The Aging Programmer [video]

#35

Post by y-c-o-m-b »

PaulHoule wrote: post #17
ddellacosta wrote: post #8

I appreciated this. Lots of solid advice and positive and pragmatic thinking here about aging in the context of being a programmer, and more generally too. I'll take this opportunity to make a related pitch regarding back pain in particular, which can become more of a problem if you are sedentary as so many programmers are: if you have chronic back issues you owe it to yourself to at least check out Stuart McGill's B…

See also https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK539720/ McKenzie's ideas helped me greatly with back pain but did not help with my neck pain I got later. After some years I discovered I had trouble in my jaw which caused referred pain to my neck and shoulders. My dentist recommended a bite guard for my tooth grinding, at which point the pain quickly localized in my jaw and slowly got better -- maybe it hurts a bit one…

PSA: Be careful about doing McKenzie technique exercises! It made it worse for me because the physical therapist didn't do a good enough analysis! I encourage a thorough assessment that includes an MRI review of your spine first.

The link posted above mentions it as well

> Although most patients favor spinal extension, there are, however, patients who favor spinal flexion instead. For these types of patients, the repetitive extension based exercises can possibly lead to peripheralization which is the worsening of distal referred pain from repetitive motion. In contrast to centralization, peripheralization does not carry a good prognosis and is to be avoided. It is thus vital for clinicians to form an accurate assessment of the directional preference rather than assuming a patient will favor extension and thereby proceeding with therapy based on that assumption.

EDIT: Just to clarify further, the potential side effects are not just "pain". In my case, doing a cobra pose causes me to piss myself and lose feeling in my legs. This can be catastrophic to some people. Please folks, do not just go off some rando on social media telling you "X will treat your neck/back pain!". You can end up seriously much worse than you started. You need to SEE what the problem is first and only an MRI and a trained physician can tell you what is appropriate for you.

Re: The Aging Programmer [video]

#36

Post by neilv »

paganel wrote: post #11
monsieurgaufre wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're lucking that aging has not impact on programming, then.

I'm not yet 50, I'm "only" in my mid-40s, but for sure advancing in age has had an effect on the way I program code. For sure I won't be able to spend long hours in the night trying to decipher/solve a specific programming problem, I used to do that when I was younger. I also used to type a lot more code, as in, my fingers used to type a lot more, I can't physically afford to do that now because after a certain thres…

It really varies by person and circumstances, and there's also things you can do (analogous to when someone with aches starts lifting weights, and gets in the best shape of their life).

Late nights are often a bad idea anyway. Though I literally just finished a successful all-nighter about an hour ago, I try not to make a habit of it. And there's a ton of things we know how to do, so that most all-nighters never need to happen.

Regarding typing, it might not be a "this is my life now" thing you just have to accept and work with, but there might be some practice/nuance or environmental factor that you can change for big wins. You can look into typing/workstation ergonomics, and experiment with the many variables, to see what works for you. I had to do that in my late teens, when most of our development team on a stressful project developed hand pain and worse, and learned what worked for me. Now I can type all day and night without problem. Having that known-good baseline means that I soon know when I start doing something that doesn't work for me. (Last time was a few years ago, when I started using a laptop with a numeric keypad at a startup, and hand started hurting. I think probably because hands had to twist badly for the way I was balancing the laptop with the off-center main keyboard. So I switched that work to a laptop without an off-center keyboard, and problem disappeared.)

Re: The Aging Programmer [video]

#37

Post by 0x5f3759df-i »

waffletower wrote: post #28

I don't see the words "standing desk" together in the comments yet. I am using one at the moment and later today I will be sitting. It is important to alternate lest you create new issues IMO.

And if you really want to up your game a treadmill desk has been an amazing upgrade.

If I just live my typical WFH life I am usually hitting a dismal 2k steps a day. Doing two 45 min to an hour work sessions walking at the treadmill desk had me hitting 10k steps without having to devote any special extra time in my day to exercise.

Re: The Aging Programmer [video]

#38

Post by danbmil »

My peak programming skills are close to what they were 30 years ago, but I cannot sustain that level of concentration for long periods as I once could.

I feel like a pinch hitter: I can do a couple innings at a high level of performance, but I can't keep that level up as long as I used to.

OTOH I think I have better judgement when it comes to deep, complex questions of long-term architecture choices. My "meta-programming" skills are sharper than ever.

Re: The Aging Programmer [video]

#39

Post by lupire »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #23
dtdynasty wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Programmers are much more likely than the general population to have hyper-mobility. This does not seem intuitive to me. Why would this be the case?

I noticed it in general observationally and later found a generic explanation for it. I used to do behavioral analytics and noticed that programmers tend to have a distinct clustering of behaviors. I’m pretty sure it’s the TNXB gene, it’s been overlooked because it’s traditionally hard to sequence but modern sequencing 30x or long reads can find SNPs here. A colleague who has the same rare set of behaviors and intere…

These conditions (hypermobilty, transgenderism, programming) are all part of the autism cluster.

Re: The Aging Programmer [video]

#40

Post by svilen_dobrev »

interesting. i am 55-ish.

"change is the only constant in universe" - whoever said that.

For a change, i went long-distance bikepacking 5y ago. 500-1000-1500kms.

Then, Learned to e-foil 2y ago.. took me weeks if not months to get the balance right. (While some kid i taught on the beach, needed 25 mins :/) 7000km so far. Traumas not counted - but hey i am (even more) alive. Today seawater was 8'C.. so what.

The other day decided to (finally) learn Go.. did the tour mostly, then, what, just read the spec top to bottom (it's short, has interesting recent changes in scope of for-vars). A nice little language as they frame it. (Maybe 25th or 35th programming language i learn. stopped counting long ago)

But.. Cannot be bothered to LLMize meself. And Maybe connected, it seems hard to find a (proper) job recently. esp. if excluding some things on ethical grounds.. Which brings cynicism - as described in the article.

But yeah. Better Live now. Yesterday is history, Tomorrow is a mystery..

have fun

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