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How do non-software engineers feel upon reflection, about their degrees?

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Re: How do non-software engineers feel upon reflection, about their degrees?

#31
post #17

I studied computer science over a decade ago. What I learnt at the university was: 1) perseverance. I wanted to learn about writing programs and OS and hardware… but I had to first pass all the mathematical lectures. It wasn’t easy. 2) How to learn. I feel like I can learn any topic nowadays, And pretty much I have been doing this over all my career. I didn’t learn about Kafka or K8s or Go in the uni, but I learnt th…

Your comment about primary/high school is incorrect from my point of view. It's only evaluating that time on it being practical for your work (or CS study). There's a lot of value on learning about Geography, History, Biology, the sciences, the social aspect of learning and going to a school and so on. It's hard to observe it after you have done it. It can be possible you feel like you don't remember much, or don't f…

Fair point. Although I wasn’t thinking about the utility of primary/high school in relation with CS. For instance, I studied (I believe) over 6 years english (probably more) in primary/high school. I couldn’t maintain a conversation with a native speaker when I finished high school. Had to study it by myself during uni (thanks Youtube!).

Same goes for chemistry for example. Can’t recall much tbh. My point is that primary/high school could be way more efficient.

Re: How do non-software engineers feel upon reflection, about their degrees?

#32
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment about primary/high school is incorrect from my point of view. It's only evaluating that time on it being practical for your work (or CS study). There's a lot of value on learning about Geography, History, Biology, the sciences, the social aspect of learning and going to a school and so on. It's hard to observe it after you have done it. It can be possible you feel like you don't remember much, or don't f…

Fair point. Although I wasn’t thinking about the utility of primary/high school in relation with CS. For instance, I studied (I believe) over 6 years english (probably more) in primary/high school. I couldn’t maintain a conversation with a native speaker when I finished high school. Had to study it by myself during uni (thanks Youtube!). Same goes for chemistry for example. Can’t recall much tbh. My point is that pri…

To be fair, the goal of school us not to be efficient. And I'd suggest that most attendees aren't all that interested in efficiency either. I certainly spent as little time on schoolwork as possible, and really didn't think much beyond the next exam.

Despite that I've found my schooling has really helped me along the way. Apart from the obvious (reading, writing, arithmetic). I took accountancy as a subject. When I started working for myself having that accounting knowledge was really helpful.

Physics slso played a role in life just after school. I spent some time in a "trade" type job (fire fighting) and high school physics (conduction, electricity etc) were all practical tools.

High school math helped with logic (that came in handy) and even algebra and formulas are good background and applicable to programing (and made it easier to learn.)

In hindsight I credit my English teachers with my communication skills- I have written text books and run training classes.

Its not like I "learned nothing since school" and its not like I was a model student at school, but I picked up skills when I wasn't looking.

As for Geography - well I don't know that that has affected my career, but it certainly gets the kids eyes rolling when I pontificate on rock types and magma intrusions. :)

Re: How do non-software engineers feel upon reflection, about their degrees?

#33

Building your own devboard requires skills in many interdependent areas. Have you tried using an Arduino or similar first? Having built computers from TTL chips and wirewrap chassis, I can confirm that digital electronics field has grown massively and requires knowledge in many specialist areas. Even designing a PCB requires a great deal of knowledge. Tools like KiCAD are great, but they don't abstract out the requis…

>Have you tried using an Arduino or similar first? That’s why I went to uni to do EE/Robotics. I wanted the next step, suffice to say I did not get the next step from university. I see what you’re getting at though. Just in time learning seems to be the way it will be. It’s just frustrating I don’t even have a base to go off of. Pretty much all my background knowledge has come from stuff I learnt outside of uni.

I know your pain. I'm the person who tries a dozen things and when none of them work, then grudgingly reads the manual, etc.

If your base doesn't help you launch, even in a small way, then you need to go below that base, back towards the fundamentals. I'm sure you learnt about logic gates, digital signals, transmission line effects, power glitches, etc. Unless you went to one of the well funded universities with youngish academics, then what you learnt was probably 5+ years behind the current state of the art. Add to that the years since you graduated. That is the knowledge gap in years that you need to traverse to establish an up to date base.

Until recently, I taught post-grad EE/SE (as an ex-industry, adjunct) at one of the country's top universities. My colleagues were dismayed at the inadequacy of STEM education of the first-year students. Year 1 has become a remedial school. Starting from such a low-level of knowledge 2-3 years doesn't provide enough time to teach all that is required to be successful in industry. In the field of digital electronics you typically need 3+ years of industry experience to become competent. Of course, motivated autodidacts can accomplish far more in far less time.

Re: How do non-software engineers feel upon reflection, about their degrees?

#34

I think your university may have fallen short of its goals for the EE or robotics programs. My EE major started with circuit theory, had labs with Arduinos and advanced to digital logic (embedded software) theory along with labs using professional-grade microcontrollers (TI MSP430, I think). Senior design capstone took us through schematic capture + PCB layout and getting a board fabbed. We did the soldering and popu…

The quality of university education varies greatly internationally as well as within the larger countries. Funding and the ability to attract top educators varies greatly.

It should be noted that Arduinos came about to greatly lower the cost of teaching embedded systems engineering. It really took off from there.

Re: How do non-software engineers feel upon reflection, about their degrees?

#35
I'm not sure I understand the point here. Are you complaining that your training as a software engineer didn't prepare you to be a hardware engineer?

I'm in software and have made very basic PCBs for some projects. I have never used KiCAD. I'm sure the learning curve would be steep. But I expect that as my classes were focus on software design, not hardware design.

Re: How do non-software engineers feel upon reflection, about their degrees?

#37
Look at CircuitMaker [1]. It's a simplified free version of Altium and will be more accessible than KiCAD (not to bash that, KiCAD is crazy good nowadays). Maybe start with one of the existing public designs and modify it.

I have an MSEE. The only reason I learned the board design process in school is because my office mate convinced the department to let him teach the class completely out of his own generosity (he still had to TA like normal). The class was well attended, universally loved, and only ever offered once (the guy understabaly thought it was too much effort to do it again). It was a huge benefit to my career.

Board design is so accessible these days. Circuit design and debugging boards is still a steep learning curve.

[1] https://www.altium.com/circuitmaker

Re: How do non-software engineers feel upon reflection, about their degrees?

#38
I’m a non-software engineer, here’s what I think:

I think of bachelors degrees, or undergraduate degrees and diploma’s as being like little samplers. There is advantages to getting a degree, like showing you can finish something you started, and I definitely think you do learn some skills, but I wouldn’t expect to gain mastery of a subject from just doing a degree. A degree might provide a good foundation, but you really have to build on it, either by doing more study, or working in a relevant industry that provides opportunities for growth, rather than just sitting there with your degree that will most definitely become outdated if you fail to keep up with the pace of change. Everything changes, even stuff that was considered true facts on the nature of the universe have been revised over time. (Not sure this was a good example since we know shit all about the universe actually.)

I’m currently completing my 5th and 6th degree’s at the moment (one is my second masters degree) I don’t feel very smart, and sometimes I don’t feel like the knowledge I’ve gained is that useful, except what I’ve noticed is that I listen more carefully to what other people say now, especially when they’re spouting their opinions on hot topics and often I just find myself noticing that people don’t actually know that they’re actually quite uneducated. In fact, I’d say the danger of undergraduate degree’s is that people think they’re educated by having a degree, and it’s great that they do have a degree, but there’s a lot more knowledge they don’t have, they just don’t know that they don’t know.

After doing my numerous degree’s, what I’ve learned for certain is that I could spend my whole life studying and I’ll never know everything there is to know, I find it humbling, but equally, my attitude every day is that I’m probably going to learn something new and I’m open to that. I guess some people might call that a growth mindset or something. I think others might just think I am a weirdo.

Re: How do non-software engineers feel upon reflection, about their degrees?

#39
My degree is in English (mostly creative writing).

I went when college was cheap (graduated around 2005 w/ $20k in loans and consolidated at 1.8% interest). Paid it off over the next 15 years or so. Never felt the cost of it influence anything in my life.

College was a pretty fun 4-year vacation. I played poker, disc golf, and read and wrote a lot.

I was aimless when I entered and aimless when I left.

Did it help me in any meaningful way? I’d say yes. Now 20 years after I’ve graduated, I’ve continuously improved my ability to read and communicate based on the foundation I got in college.

Could I have developed that foundation somewhere else? Almost certainly, but I didn’t.

Would I recommend an English degree today? Probably not. It’s a different world now and school is more expensive. But I wouldn’t have listened to me 20 years ago and nobody should listen to me today.

Re: How do non-software engineers feel upon reflection, about their degrees?

#40

I did a "Business" degree and sitting here in 2025 I could give you 12 LLM prompts that will teach you everything I learned, and in better quality than the textbooks or lecture notes. I don't regret it because it allowed me to get and keep overpaid so-called "bulls*t" jobs for 15 years, but I wouldn't start down that path today.

Do you mind sharing those 12 prompts?
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