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NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

congestion-pricing-tracker.com

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Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#31

Post by woodruffw »

comprambler wrote: post #20

Congestion pricing can work to dissuade individuals from living in the burbs, only if there is controls on real estate to deal with the influx of people moving inward. The other benefit is an increase of mass transit usage, which is a plus? I personally took a cab from Newark to Laguardia at MIDNIGHT and it took 40 min to cross into Manhattan to get to the Queens-Midtown tunnel. Just a new level of traffic. Was fun g…

Living in the suburbs is perfectly fine; I think a perfectly virtuous outcome here would be that people keep living in the suburbs if they wish, but have adequately funded suburban rail and bus transit into the city.

An important piece of context is that NYC has some of the US's best suburban transit, including three different suburban rail systems (NJT, MNRR, LIRR) and one non-subway interurban rapid transit system (PATH).

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#32

Post by brettgriffin »

mlinhares wrote: post #19
timewizard wrote: post #14

Well, if you make the road a luxury, less people will be /able/ to use it. It's nice to see someone is measuring just how much luxury is being created here although I don't think these metrics are particularly useful outside of that goal.

Driving and parking in NYC is already a luxury, there’s no poor person driving and parking there.

There are like 400 housing developments in NYC for lower income folks. Saying that lower income folks don't drive in NYC is bananas.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#34

Post by maxwellg »

gkoberger wrote: post #16
maxwellg wrote: post #11

I'm incredibly hopeful that NYC congestion pricing pays off in a big way - and that we start to see it in other cities across America. I really, really want congestion pricing in downtown SF. During rush hour, cars block the box and slow down busses, with cascading effects.

While I agree with disliking the things you mentioned, could it be argued that adding barriers to entry for getting into the city will just increase WFH and hurt SF more? I can see a lot of people choosing to just stay home rather than take a bus – not everyone is close to MUNI or BART.

For a concrete example of carrot and stick - check out ridership numbers for the 49 after the Van Ness BRT project finished. 49 ridership is more than completely recovered at 140% of pre-pandemic numbers. In comparison, the 38 and 38R didn't get their dedicated bus lane out in the Richmond and ridership numbers are still nowhere near pre-pandemic. Make the bus fast and frequent and people will take it.

https://www.sfmta.com/reports/average-daily-muni-boardings-r...

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#35

Post by woodruffw »

brettgriffin wrote: post #32
mlinhares wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Driving and parking in NYC is already a luxury, there’s no poor person driving and parking there.

There are like 400 housing developments in NYC for lower income folks. Saying that lower income folks don't drive in NYC is bananas.

The GP is incorrect, but using the absolute number of housing developments in NYC is also misleading (since NYC has lots of middle-income housing developments too).

On average, personal drivers on NYC roads skew towards wealthier and suburban, whereas city dwellers of all demographics broadly ride the subway and other mass transit. Congestion pricing will certainly represent a cost for poorer New Yorkers, but it will disproportionately be shouldered by wealthier demographics that are often on the road by choice (e.g. choosing to commute by car from Long Island because the city has inadvertently subsidized doing so with free parking.)

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#36

Post by yobid20 »

Bad timing on the charts before and after. Coming back off holidays, delayed flights, and in the middle of massive snowstorms. The constant data is flawed and results irrelavant. You need to wait until the spring/summer and compare windows of time to previous years.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#37

Post by paxys »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #33

Note that a gimped version of congestion pricing was actually implemented, putting it closer to being an annoyance more than an actual deterrence. Originally it was meant to be $15, but was ultimately lowered to $9.

Going from no congestion pricing to some congestion pricing is the biggest barrier, and that was overcome. Increasing it from here is going to be a lot easier, especially if residents realize the positive effects.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#38

Post by mperham »

gkoberger wrote: post #16
maxwellg wrote: post #11

I'm incredibly hopeful that NYC congestion pricing pays off in a big way - and that we start to see it in other cities across America. I really, really want congestion pricing in downtown SF. During rush hour, cars block the box and slow down busses, with cascading effects.

While I agree with disliking the things you mentioned, could it be argued that adding barriers to entry for getting into the city will just increase WFH and hurt SF more? I can see a lot of people choosing to just stay home rather than take a bus – not everyone is close to MUNI or BART.

Or it could be argued that more people want to take the bus but it’s too slow to be practical due to car gridlock.

Re: NYC Congestion Pricing Tracker

#40

Post by JumpCrisscross »

matthest wrote: post #7

Whether it's the government or corporations, big organizations are the problem. We need a small business revolution in this country. Side note: An economy made up of small businesses was Adam Smith's original vision (the godfather of capitalism). He also hated the idea of a corporation. What we have today really is very far from Adam Smith capitalism.

> We need a small business revolution in this country

New York City is filled with small businesses. When walking distance puts you in range of entire towns’ populations, that becomes much easier. Emphasis, there, on both the distance and walking. Someone who drives into New York to go to a destination doesn’t pass as many small businesses as someone who takes transit.

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