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Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

dropbox.github.io

31–40 of 136 posts

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#31
post #6

Just skimmed through it, but it seems extremely similar to what is done at other big tech companies.

Have they all reached the same conclusion independently or are they just copying each other's homework?

Hired the same management consultants to write their career framework is my guess.

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's true. It's in the company's interest that people are evaluated fairly, especially if they are going to give big bonus or agressively fire low performers (like some of these tech companies do). Don't know about Dropbox in particular, but I know other tech companies who take evaluation very seriously. The manager doesn't have the final word and there's a calibration committee that ranks employee base…

So you're defending the standard company evaluation metrics in theory, yet in your closing paragraph you state from your own personal experience that the outcome aligns with the above commentor's statement (which you disagree with).

I'm saying it's possible to evaluate employees based on some metrics and objective criteria, and it can be much better defined than "make manager happy" in some arbitrary way. That's my disagreement with above commentator.

My experience is that it can be hard to define criteria that align with company's goal (make shareholder happy).

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#33

It could be that I’m getting old, became a parent and working remotely from the middle of nowhere, but do I need to get to the next level? I really wouldn’t mind keeping my current salary, adjust it for inflation and I’m good. I don’t care about my title, I don’t want to manage people, I don’t want to work harder than I need to. I just want to pay off my mortgage, have some leftover money for vacations, have time for…

That’s because “impact” is generally code for making other people rich. If you’re in a small enough company for your impact to matter, chances are your stock options are still chips, which you might never get to cash in. If the company is post IPO then chances are your impact will never move the needle materially for yourself. Income is really the only thing that matters. When you do the same job and aren’t getting i…

> “impact” is generally code for making other people rich

I love this and am going to reuse it!

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#34
post #10

In all of "career frameworks" I've seen, people who actually build things are labelled as "juniors" and "middles" while those who navigate office politics and ass-kissing are "seniors" and above.

Do you think that's a bad thing? writing code != building things. In my org, seniors spend a lot less time building things: writing components, etc. They do spend a lot of time navigating office politics. But they are engineering specific office politics: how does system A interact with system B? What are the architectural implications? Ownership of long term data and technical and business strategies? The "art" of n…

Senior who doesn't deliver (write code) is not a senior. Beating about the bush in meetings is easy, executing the stuff isn't.

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#35
post #10

In all of "career frameworks" I've seen, people who actually build things are labelled as "juniors" and "middles" while those who navigate office politics and ass-kissing are "seniors" and above.

The more senior you become, the more you are responsible for building the right thing the right way. Necessarily this might involve what you call "navigate office politics and ass-kissing" but others might just call talking to your colleagues and planning.

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#36
post #10

In all of "career frameworks" I've seen, people who actually build things are labelled as "juniors" and "middles" while those who navigate office politics and ass-kissing are "seniors" and above.

Do you think that's a bad thing? writing code != building things. In my org, seniors spend a lot less time building things: writing components, etc. They do spend a lot of time navigating office politics. But they are engineering specific office politics: how does system A interact with system B? What are the architectural implications? Ownership of long term data and technical and business strategies? The "art" of n…

I agree that writing code != building things, but they're not disjoint either.

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#37
post #10

In all of "career frameworks" I've seen, people who actually build things are labelled as "juniors" and "middles" while those who navigate office politics and ass-kissing are "seniors" and above.

Agree with the sentiment, but senior, staff, platform, architect, etc can also be granted on merit in orgs with engineering segregated. Playing the high school drama games does get you places though.

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#39
post #10

In all of "career frameworks" I've seen, people who actually build things are labelled as "juniors" and "middles" while those who navigate office politics and ass-kissing are "seniors" and above.

Politics, nepotism, ass-kissing, or incompetence exist everywhere and at every level. Just the byproduct of not living in a utopia.

But beyond that there's way more to building than writing code or laying bricks. These aren't the career defining challenges you think they are. Solving problems is, and most problems in any non-trivial activity are not solved with code or more precise brick placement.

So while you should be able to code and lay bricks enough to be comfortable in any conversation in the team, you'll get away with not being the best at that if you have skills useful for the bigger picture.

When someone conceived the whole thing and considered all the implications properly from the start, when they "politicked" their way into smoothing the path for the builder to walk and build on, when they "ass-kissed" to get the resources they need, then they're certainly a few steps ahead of any junior or middle even before writing a line of code.

Re: Dropbox Engineering Career Framework

#40

It could be that I’m getting old, became a parent and working remotely from the middle of nowhere, but do I need to get to the next level? I really wouldn’t mind keeping my current salary, adjust it for inflation and I’m good. I don’t care about my title, I don’t want to manage people, I don’t want to work harder than I need to. I just want to pay off my mortgage, have some leftover money for vacations, have time for…

I'm in the UK and since buying a house, I really feel no need to keep going higher. Property pricing in the UK is extremely damaging.

If I found a job at a higher level that I thought I'd really enjoy and that I'd be good at, I'll be interested, but otherwise I'm content.

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