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How I got promoted to staff engineer twice

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Re: How I got promoted to staff engineer twice

#31

Post by wakeupcall »

likeabatterycar wrote: post #27
scott_w wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience of speaking to people who make the decisions is that titles are absolutely a social signal that gets people to listen. Now, if what you say is too whacky, or you demonstrate a total lack of ability once given a chance, then you’ll lose that listening privilege. However, a more senior title can get people’s ears opened in the first place.

Titles are a great initial assessment as to how much of a politician or charlatan someone may be in the org.

In one of my work experiences, "titles" were used as opposed to (or with a meager) paycheck raises. The most ridiculous aspect was that we had a fair number of group leaders, each with a team of 1 (just themselves).

For some it was effective.

This isn't reflecting the OP case though.

Re: How I got promoted to staff engineer twice

#32

Post by iLoveOncall »

pockmarked19 wrote: post #5
davesmylie wrote: post #4

What is the difference between a senior engineer and a staff engineer?

The staff title unlocks a new level of self-aggrandizement which is on display here and in certain published books. As for professional qualities, I don’t think there is one. It takes a staff engineer at FAANG to do what a senior can do at a smaller company, because of all the other self—important people not listening to you. (Dealing with that is a skill though, so having that skill might be it.)

> It takes a staff engineer at FAANG to do what a senior can do at a smaller company

This is beyond laughable. FAANGs are pretty much the only place where staff is actually hard to make.

I see countless "senior" engineers with 3 years of experience in smaller companies.

The truth is it would take a good entry-level FAANG engineer to match a senior engineer in a smaller company.

Re: How I got promoted to staff engineer twice

#33

Post by wiseowise »

threatofrain wrote: post #16

I don't agree with the mentoring and leading part not being important except as a mediator to shipping. Mentoring and leading increases your soft power by giving people the opportunity to like you. This power can translate even to the next company since tech can be a small world.

Highly situational. Influencing 10 junior-mid engineers is always worse than being in good graces of someone that actually has influence on your career (manager, director, etc.)

Re: How I got promoted to staff engineer twice

#35

Post by roncesvalles »

davesmylie wrote: post #4

What is the difference between a senior engineer and a staff engineer?

Within the same company? Money, that's about it. Between companies there is no standardization of levels, titles, and responsibilities.

Fun fact: at IBM a "Staff" is actually junior to a "Senior". So it's all over the place anyway.

The latest trend in new companies is to not assign named titles at all, just numbered levels.

Re: How I got promoted to staff engineer twice

#36

Post by CapeTheory »

> That means your manager has to be switched on and fully on board.

Your manager also needs enough political capital to drive the promotion. This is something I have an acute awareness of, having been told for the last 3 years that I was operating at the principal level (no staff title here) but not getting promoted. Eventually my manager was forced out of the company by bullying from my skip-level, so now I'm left to look for a new role elsewhere or spend some unknown amount of time building the relationship with my new manager.

Re: How I got promoted to staff engineer twice

#37

Post by rootsudo »

scott_w wrote: post #22
silisili wrote: post #2

My own experience has taught me that titles are kinda dumb, and at times very very insular, which seems to be the case here. I went from eng, to sr eng, to principal eng, back to eng, making more money each time along the way across different orgs. Our industry has little to no real standards. Congrats on your promotion, but your title ultimately means little across companies.

My experience of speaking to people who make the decisions is that titles are absolutely a social signal that gets people to listen. Now, if what you say is too whacky, or you demonstrate a total lack of ability once given a chance, then you’ll lose that listening privilege. However, a more senior title can get people’s ears opened in the first place.

Sadly very accurate. That’s how you can find inflated titles but people with no ability to do work.

Re: How I got promoted to staff engineer twice

#38

Post by [deleted] »

wakeupcall wrote: post #31
likeabatterycar wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Titles are a great initial assessment as to how much of a politician or charlatan someone may be in the org.

In one of my work experiences, "titles" were used as opposed to (or with a meager) paycheck raises. The most ridiculous aspect was that we had a fair number of group leaders, each with a team of 1 (just themselves). For some it was effective. This isn't reflecting the OP case though.

[deleted]

Re: How I got promoted to staff engineer twice

#39

Post by larusso »

My title in the company is Principal, but my role encompasses a bit more. I recently helped and advocated for a promotion to Principal for one of my reports. The step from Senior to Principal is a very challenging one in our organization, as it’s not based on skill alone but also on other factors. In our organization, there is a strong focus on leveling and mentoring, and we set clear expectations that reaching the Principal level (which is the highest IC level for us) is a long journey.

Just to be clear, I got promoted when the rules and definitions weren’t as clearly defined. That doesn’t mean I’m undeserving of the title, but it does highlight how, even within the same organization, the criteria for who can hold certain titles and receive promotions have evolved over time. Because of this, I feel the experience described here can seem somewhat arbitrary given the way most companies have no shared setup / structure for promotions and skill levels. Congratulations on the promotion non the less.

Re: How I got promoted to staff engineer twice

#40

Post by soulofmischief »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #32
pockmarked19 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The staff title unlocks a new level of self-aggrandizement which is on display here and in certain published books. As for professional qualities, I don’t think there is one. It takes a staff engineer at FAANG to do what a senior can do at a smaller company, because of all the other self—important people not listening to you. (Dealing with that is a skill though, so having that skill might be it.)

> It takes a staff engineer at FAANG to do what a senior can do at a smaller company This is beyond laughable. FAANGs are pretty much the only place where staff is actually hard to make. I see countless "senior" engineers with 3 years of experience in smaller companies. The truth is it would take a good entry-level FAANG engineer to match a senior engineer in a smaller company.

You've missed the point. OP is discussing affordance, not skill. A senior engineer at a smaller company may have equal or less skill than a staff engineer at a larger company, but they have more affordance if there are less cogs in the bureaucratic machine that need oiling whenever they need to get something done. Experience in a variety of workplaces will give you the same intuition.
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