Live data from Hacker News

A web app to read Latin texts with inline translations

adi.earth

31–40 of 71 posts

Re: A web app to read Latin texts with inline translations

#31

After finishing DuoLingo’s Latin course, I wanted to read some Latin texts, but I didn't find easy enough texts and going back and forth to a dictionary was cumbersome. So I created this app for reading basic Latin texts. The idea of the app is to have a Latin text with translation of each word under the paragraph line, which makes it easy to grasp the meaning but also focuses on reading the original Latin text. It o…

I do not speak latin, although I studied it for two years in high school and I'm a native speaker of a romance language, so my understanding of latin is pretty much basic to guesswork.

This is a really cool tool -- I often read latin texts with the original on one page and the translation on the other, just because I think it's interesting to see how they wrote/spoke at the time, but for the most part certain words or declinations throw me off guard. Inline literal translations really help there.

That being said, I noticed whilst reading some of the texts that the inline literal translations are still in latin, e.g. in "Part IV. I Some Barbarous Customs", most of the translated text is just latin. I guess OpenAI won't take all our jobs just yet!

I do have one suggestion for improvement though. Many of these texts have translations that are already in the public domain (older translations). It would be helpful to display the original Latin and a fluent English translation side by side, whilst still being able to toggle the literal translation on or off. This setup would make it easier to compare the original text with a fluent English translation, similar to the format used in some bilingual books.

Re: A web app to read Latin texts with inline translations

#33

After finishing DuoLingo’s Latin course, I wanted to read some Latin texts, but I didn't find easy enough texts and going back and forth to a dictionary was cumbersome. So I created this app for reading basic Latin texts. The idea of the app is to have a Latin text with translation of each word under the paragraph line, which makes it easy to grasp the meaning but also focuses on reading the original Latin text. It o…

“Translation of each word” is also called a “gloss”, and I think it’s absolutely vital for trying to read works in translation.

Lots of words and phrases have multiple meanings and connotations in their origin language and it’s not usually possible for a translation to bring the richness into the target language.

(I’m going to butcher this because I don’t have the text in front of me, but) Thomas Aquinas composed several hymns for the feast of Corpus Christi, one of which is “O salutaris hostia”, which contains a reference to “fer auxilium” which is often translated to “bring help”.

The choice of the word “fer” isn’t the most obvious choice for “bring”, though. Some translators have speculated that Aquinas chose “fer” because of how close it is to “ferculum”, which is a litter or wooden frame upon which spoils are carried, which refers to the crucifixion.

.... I think that’s right.

Anyway if you have a gloss along with a translation, it’s easier to include context like that as footnotes on individual words/phrases.

Re: A web app to read Latin texts with inline translations

#34
post #29
post #5

I suggest using ruby annotations for the translation part. I am building a sanskrit reader[1] and needed a feature that allowed users to tag words with notes/meaning. ruby annotations work wonderfully for that. [1] Site: https://www.adhyeta.org.in/ Backend: https://github.com/s-i-e-v-e/adhyeta (The vocabulary features require a login, which is not open to the public as of yet.)

How... how does it work?

Ruby annotations?[1] They were originally meant to provide pronunciation hints for Asian languages. The hints naturally float above or below the corresponding word. You do not have to play around with tables/grids/flex to make this happen.

[1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/ru...

Re: A web app to read Latin texts with inline translations

#35

I built a similar thing a while back: https://github.com/katspaugh/interlinear.io Useful when you're at a very low level of a language. Past B1 or so, it's mostly looking up individual words.

This is nice! Have been building something similar for Sanskrit (links in my other comment).

And yes, this is not helpful beyond a point. But most people never reach that point. So, any help is useful.

Re: A web app to read Latin texts with inline translations

#37
I think it's a useful start, but I for one still prefer consulting a dictionary on the side (e.g. Whitaker's Words -- https://latin-words.com/) to make sure I get the nuances and make sure I parse the individual words correctly.

The first thing that stood out to me with the translation is that it goes word-by-word, and doesn't have any room for ambiguity.

For instance, in the first line, "profectus est" is the third-person singular perfect form of the deponent verb "proficiscor" based on context, but it could also be the perfect passive form of "proficio" (which my brain initially gravitated toward, as one of the many derivatives of "facio"). I'd be a bit worried about picking the wrong one if given the word out of context. Or even just picking the wrong translation for a word: for the second sentence, using the word-for-word translation, I might try for "He long was spent at Periander, king of the Corinthians" when "He long dwelled at the house of Periander, king of the Corinthians" would read more naturally, using different translations for "apud" and "versatus erat".

Further, if you don't treat these pairs as holistic verb forms, you get very confused by just reordering words: "Arion, after he is having traveled abroad, ..." vs "Arion, after he traveled abroad, ..." And, it can cause some issues with relative ordering of events (where it's common to move between verb tenses to indicate that some events happened further in the past -- pluperfect vs perfect especially).

And, if you treat "erat" as "was" all the time (as is the case with "versatus erat"), you'll interpret pluperfect (which implies finality) as imperfect.

Later in the first paragraph, I'd run into a little bit of trouble with the ablative absolute ("Ingentibus opibus ibi comparatis"): "Great wealth there acquired" would more literally be translated as "With great wealth having been acquired", or, taking some liberties with the translation, "After he acquired great wealth, ..."

Moving on to the second heading: yes, "ut" is most commonly used as part of a result or a purpose clause with the subjunctive, but a newer reader might not understand why we use the subjunctive here instead of the infinitive. The most literal translation might be "The sailors make a plan such that they might rob and kill that man", but yes, once you're more used to the language, you'd translate it simply as "The sailors make a plan to rob and kill him".

Re: A web app to read Latin texts with inline translations

#38
This is really nice, and I hope you continue with additional texts, as I have been trying once again to pick up Latin basics, using YouTube videos and Wheelock's Latin (which is one of the best foreign language books I've ever seen).

It would be nice to be able to add the macrons or even acute accent characters to show emphasis syllables as another toggle-able option -- ChatGPT seemed to do OK with that task for me just now.

Re: A web app to read Latin texts with inline translations

#39

After finishing DuoLingo’s Latin course, I wanted to read some Latin texts, but I didn't find easy enough texts and going back and forth to a dictionary was cumbersome. So I created this app for reading basic Latin texts. The idea of the app is to have a Latin text with translation of each word under the paragraph line, which makes it easy to grasp the meaning but also focuses on reading the original Latin text. It o…

>I used OpenAI to do the translation which looks pretty good for me, with the caveat that... well... I do not know Latin OpenAI also does not know Latin. This is either a tool to troll people that can read Latin or a tool to help people “learn” a made up vaguely Latin-shaped set of gibberish that ChatGPT nondeterministically generated. This only works for a definition of “Latin” that is a sort of vibe wholly detached…

You're severely overstating the case here, as if it just produces random text like a markov generator or something.

Re: A web app to read Latin texts with inline translations

#40

After finishing DuoLingo’s Latin course, I wanted to read some Latin texts, but I didn't find easy enough texts and going back and forth to a dictionary was cumbersome. So I created this app for reading basic Latin texts. The idea of the app is to have a Latin text with translation of each word under the paragraph line, which makes it easy to grasp the meaning but also focuses on reading the original Latin text. It o…

I think it’s pretty cool, but with Latin a simple word by word translation will quickly become unmanageable because you need to re-order and break up sentences to make them understandable in other languages. If you take Cicero for example, it is common to have periods that last one full page of text.
Post reply on HN