With all the high speed trains in Europe, I'm wondering why we don't see more security around them. It seems a much easier target than airplanes.
Masks, Smoke, and Mirrors: The story of EgyptAir flight 804
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Re: Masks, Smoke, and Mirrors: The story of EgyptAir flight 804
#32[flagged]
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Re: Masks, Smoke, and Mirrors: The story of EgyptAir flight 804
#33With all the high speed trains in Europe, I'm wondering why we don't see more security around them. It seems a much easier target than airplanes.
I’m guessing it’s because you can’t fly a train into a building
Re: Masks, Smoke, and Mirrors: The story of EgyptAir flight 804
#34In all tests, the fire, propelled by the oxygen leak, produced a terrifying “blowtorch” effect, and the flames were literally white-hot. Sufficient concentrations of oxygen can cause even steel to burn: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_lance There must be a reason they use pure oxygen, as regular compressed air, also breathable, would not have the same intense reactivity.
It's used due to the low partial pressure of oxygen at high altitudes
Re: Masks, Smoke, and Mirrors: The story of EgyptAir flight 804
#35With all the high speed trains in Europe, I'm wondering why we don't see more security around them. It seems a much easier target than airplanes.
I’m guessing it’s because you can’t fly a train into a building
given how long and heavy trains are, and how fast they can go, and the fact that rails aren't straight, sure you can.
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/south-texas-el-paso/news/20... a train crashed into the chamber of commerce building in Pecos Tx 5 days ago.
Re: Masks, Smoke, and Mirrors: The story of EgyptAir flight 804
#36Tragedy from a Swiss cheese failure - several small holes/failures all line up. The issue of halon extinguishers versus oxygen-powered combustion producing many toxins while failing to extinguish is interesting - good that: > Halon fire extinguishers are scheduled to be phased out of most commercial aircraft by the end of 2025.
That's more because of the ozone layer. While it's not good to use halon in a semi contained space like an airplane, it is incredibly effective at killing fire. It really sucks the heat out of it. Thus in most cases the fire is killed quickly and not much toxins are produced. This is important too because fire itself produces a lot of lethal toxins too, most people in a fire don't burn to death but get poisoned by th…
> It really sucks the heat out of it.
One of the problems with halon, and the write-up mentions this, is that it is super effective at starving the fire of oxygen, but has zero effect on the heat of the fuel that was burning. So the fire goes out, but if oxygen is reintroduced before the fuel has a chance to cool sufficiently, it reignites - and now not only are you back where you started, but you have all the toxic byproducts that burning halon produces, which will kill you in a hurry if you breathe them in.
Re: Masks, Smoke, and Mirrors: The story of EgyptAir flight 804
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m guessing it’s because you can’t fly a train into a building
given how long and heavy trains are, and how fast they can go, and the fact that rails aren't straight, sure you can. https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/south-texas-el-paso/news/20... a train crashed into the chamber of commerce building in Pecos Tx 5 days ago.
…yes, but you can’t do this with a train https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks
Re: Masks, Smoke, and Mirrors: The story of EgyptAir flight 804
#38With all the high speed trains in Europe, I'm wondering why we don't see more security around them. It seems a much easier target than airplanes.
There is, in Spain you have mandatory luggage control before boarding high speed trains. I think it was implemented following this massive terrorist attack in 2004: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings
Re: Masks, Smoke, and Mirrors: The story of EgyptAir flight 804
#39[flagged]
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Re: Masks, Smoke, and Mirrors: The story of EgyptAir flight 804
#40Tragedy from a Swiss cheese failure - several small holes/failures all line up. The issue of halon extinguishers versus oxygen-powered combustion producing many toxins while failing to extinguish is interesting - good that: > Halon fire extinguishers are scheduled to be phased out of most commercial aircraft by the end of 2025.
This really is a non-issue. If you're at the point where toxins from halon pyrolysis are a problem, then you're likely already dead from other factors (heat, smoke, etc.).
Halon can works even at concentrations of just 2-5% by volume. This is entirely safe to breathe for humans. There's a video of a person discharging a halon extinguisher in a room, and then proceeding to try to light a cigarette. The matches go out immediately after striking the matchbox and the lighter can't even ignite.
CO2 extinguishers are really worse, they need to displace most of the oxygen to be effective. Unfortunately, humans also need this oxygen.
In addition, CO2 stream can cool the burning material, but it can also spread it (so be careful if you use it on burning liquids).