The author mentions his favorite philosophy is stoicism. A stoic could never hope to understand the motivations of someone like Luigi. A stoic could never bring about change.
The Riddle of Luigi Mangione
31–40 of 119 posts
Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agreed, indeed: when the people feel that justice fails them, vigantilism takes its place. We'd all do well to, in our rush to decry the murder itself, be mindful of the mistake of losing sight of the reason behind the massive support for Mangione's actions.
Let’s also remember that outright war is a bridge that can be crossed by not uncrossed. Measure twice and cut once on such things.
I think it can be argued that once a seemingly decent, mentally healthy person murders rather than a pervert cannibal or social outcast then the justification for the murder should be reasonable.
Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione
#33So this guy had a few twitter exchanges with Luigi and he thinks the US healthcare system isn't that bad? Doesn't really seem like an article for HN. But as long as we're here I think, sort of like Luigi, I'll let other people argue about whether the US healthcare system functions well or efficiently. But as for this: >While it’s true that UnitedHealthcare has the highest denial rate for medical claims, the CEO doesn…
One of the author's points was that if United took no profit, it could only very slightly increase services. The only ethical thing that Thompson could have done is advocated for the dissolution of his and his competitors' firms, which would have had him out of a job quickly. The actual problem is the system where United exists at all. Health insurance provides exceedingly little value for a very high cost. One issue…
No, you've misapprehended the critique; in fact, your comment here isn't even coherent. If you eliminate United altogether, you get a grocery store circular discount on health care; in other words: health care is still altogether too expensive. So the "actual problem" can't be the system supporting health insurance; the problem has to be elsewhere.
It's not hard to see where it is! Go look up the 2022 NHE, which includes a giant spreadsheet breaking down where all the spending is in the system (you want the "by type and program" sheet).
Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
> scope remains for negotiation and compromise and peaceful resolution I feel like the murderer wouldn't be so widely commended if that were true. Justice is what is supposed to prevent vigilantism, and apparently lots of people here felt that the murder was just.
It was not widely commended; that it looks that way is an artifact of how our media is structured. We tend now to look at the world through a band-stop filter that amplifies the most activating ideas.
@tptacek I think people mean assassinations on tape are usually universally condemned.
Luigi has tens of thousands of women lining up to marry him, multiple academics doing long pieces about how to achieve jury nullification, and saying he’s the bad guy is not a popular move basically anywhere with a lot of people in it.
If it’s amplified then the amplifier is the public.
Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione
#35It makes me livid when people write that vigilantism is never right. It speaks volumes about how little nuance there is in their own lives. I think these same people would denounce civil disobedience in the time of the civil rights movement and would joke about Seneca Falls if they were born a century younger. The overconfidence disgusts me.
Civil disobedience is not vigilantism. In fact, it is almost the opposite.
Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was not widely commended; that it looks that way is an artifact of how our media is structured. We tend now to look at the world through a band-stop filter that amplifies the most activating ideas.
@tptacek I think people mean assassinations on tape are usually universally condemned. Luigi has tens of thousands of women lining up to marry him, multiple academics doing long pieces about how to achieve jury nullification, and saying he’s the bad guy is not a popular move basically anywhere with a lot of people in it. If it’s amplified then the amplifier is the public.
You are describing a very small number of highly-activated people responding to a media environment. I think it's especially telling that you cite women "lining up to marry him"; his support, as you're depicting it, is characterized by deeply irrational behavior. I agree.
Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione
#37> If UnitedHealth Group decided to donate every single dollar of its profit to buying Americans more health care, it would only be able to pay for about 9.3% more health care than it’s already paying for.
This is an absolutely massive number. It could easily prevent hundreds of unnecessary deaths per year.
Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione
#38So this guy had a few twitter exchanges with Luigi and he thinks the US healthcare system isn't that bad? Doesn't really seem like an article for HN. But as long as we're here I think, sort of like Luigi, I'll let other people argue about whether the US healthcare system functions well or efficiently. But as for this: >While it’s true that UnitedHealthcare has the highest denial rate for medical claims, the CEO doesn…
One of the author's points was that if United took no profit, it could only very slightly increase services. The only ethical thing that Thompson could have done is advocated for the dissolution of his and his competitors' firms, which would have had him out of a job quickly. The actual problem is the system where United exists at all. Health insurance provides exceedingly little value for a very high cost. One issue…
So a fraction of the number of tech employees out of a job in the last couple years due to interest rate increases and AI panic?
What’s the problem, again?
Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
@tptacek I think people mean assassinations on tape are usually universally condemned. Luigi has tens of thousands of women lining up to marry him, multiple academics doing long pieces about how to achieve jury nullification, and saying he’s the bad guy is not a popular move basically anywhere with a lot of people in it. If it’s amplified then the amplifier is the public.
You are describing a very small number of highly-activated people responding to a media environment. I think it's especially telling that you cite women "lining up to marry him"; his support, as you're depicting it, is characterized by deeply irrational behavior. I agree.
I think I’m still openly condemning the violence without dismissing the fucking broad based anger around it. There are a large number of us who are very pissed off but still seeking compromise.
There are a very fucking small number of people who own any significant equities, or have their interests actually materialize politically.
That’s the group I’m lobbying to get your shit correct before Luigi is fucking everywhere.
Re: The Riddle of Luigi Mangione
#40Google reveals the CEO who died and other United Healthcare executive's are being investigated for insider trading, enriching themselves by many millions. (And conversely, others must have lost millions. ) Also being investigated for fraud.( I thought this may be possible cause for murder, but it appears not. )
We don't have to retcon subtle rationales onto the murder; the guy wrote a manifesto. It was bad, and dumb, as writers from both ends of the political spectrum and points between have observed.
By your tone, I would bet that your cited "writers from both ends of the political spectrum and points between" read the fake manifesto [0].
The (more likely) real [1] one isn't as easily dismissed.
0 - https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2024/12/fact-check-fake-m...