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Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

carsonogenic.substack.com

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Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#31

Post by BitterCritter »

t-writescode wrote: post #23
phoe-krk wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder if the negative view of monogamy is just the immaturity of youth and those people have since grown out of that position? There are powerful entities, including religions and country laws, that either make life easier for people pratcicing the monogamous relationship style or just outright force that style on masses of people. This force spawns resistance, and the negative view you mention is an expression…

And it's worth adding that the comment "Monogamy is coercive." is a reflection of this part: > There are powerful entities, including religions and country laws, that [...] just outright force that style on masses of people.

I think we are conflating two different things. Monogamous people and monogamous institutions. Does the author mean institutions are coercive or that couples are coercive?

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#32

Post by t-writescode »

BitterCritter wrote: post #31
t-writescode wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it's worth adding that the comment "Monogamy is coercive." is a reflection of this part: > There are powerful entities, including religions and country laws, that [...] just outright force that style on masses of people.

I think we are conflating two different things. Monogamous people and monogamous institutions. Does the author mean institutions are coercive or that couples are coercive?

Almost certainly Both!

Systemic, indoctrinated and even toxic monogamy, perpetuated by people and society at large.

You've got people and relationships that are so harmed by strict heteronormativity and its related monogamy that "men and women can't be friends" and "you can't say that lady's cute because that's cheating" and pornography is adultery.

It's little microaggressions and requirements of conformity that systematize and enforce monogamy in little ways.

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#34

Post by jandrese »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #21
tremon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're making the claim much bigger than it is. The narrow interpretation of "consensual non-monogamy" does not imply a relationship. Having a threesome with your partner and your best friend already qualifies. Making out with a non-partner while your partner watches might already qualify, depending on how the question is understood.

> Having a threesome with your partner and your best friend already qualifies I don't think it does qualify any more than having a one night stand between two single people implies that they are dating This seems to be ignore that Poly implies a relationship, not just sex

But the measurement was "consensual non-monogamy", not "polyamory".

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#35

Post by nerdjon »

spondylosaurus wrote: post #27
nerdjon wrote: post #13

There is one issue that I have with this article and most discussions around polyamory. That is mixing in open relationships and poly. There is a massive difference between, you can do whatever sexually you want and dating other people. There is an emotional difference. Myself, I am in an open relationship but I know that what I consider poly is a line I do not wish to cross. I know that just it is not for me. I don'…

The poly vs open distinction is interesting because (anecdotally) I see some variation there between gay and lesbian relationships—it seems like gay dudes are more likely to be in a door-ajar couple, whereas the throuples I know are usually groups of lesbians! Conversely, I don't see many poly gay dudes or door-ajar lesbian couples, and lesbians might be more monogamous on average.

> I don't see many poly gay dudes

From my experience. I only know a few poly gay men. I know far more gay couples in open relationships that have similar lines that I do when it comes to anything beyond that.

I mean, for sure those lines get blurry. Things that you may traditionally associate with dating like cuddling on the couch at a party (just a party, not anything more) or similar things. But, there is still that line.

I do wonder why that seems to be the case. I am reluctant to get into stereotypes to explain it...

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#36

Post by nsluss »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #21
tremon wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're making the claim much bigger than it is. The narrow interpretation of "consensual non-monogamy" does not imply a relationship. Having a threesome with your partner and your best friend already qualifies. Making out with a non-partner while your partner watches might already qualify, depending on how the question is understood.

> Having a threesome with your partner and your best friend already qualifies I don't think it does qualify any more than having a one night stand between two single people implies that they are dating This seems to be ignore that Poly implies a relationship, not just sex

The quote isn't about "Poly" it's about non-monogamy. Having a one night stand with a stranger while simultaneously having a partner is not monogamy.

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#37

Post by 9999px »

silexia wrote: post #30

Fantastic article, but as a monogamous married father of 4, I think the author misses the fundamental point of all relationships... And the point of life itself: Reproduction. The primary drive of every living creature from whales to amoeba is to procreate. Having children is WHY we have a sex drive and an urge to have relationships in the first place. Tons of studies show children require stability in the relationsh…

Downvotes are mad that you're correct.

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#38

Post by 123yawaworht456 »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #18

I am someone who experienced the "longterm partner decided she wanted to be poly" heartbreak. When she told me, I asked her why she would choose to stay with me rather than just be single and date as many men as she wanted. She told me something along the lines of "I love you, I want to spend the rest of my life with you, but I don't feel like one person is enough for all the love I have". I wasn't terribly happy wit…

the more I glimpse American culture, the happier I am that I was not born there.

>I wasn't terribly happy with that response, and she broke up with me a week later

my brother in Christ, you should've broken up with her on the spot.

Re: Polyamory doesn't liberate; monogamy doesn't protect

#39

Post by spondylosaurus »

nerdjon wrote: post #35
spondylosaurus wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poly vs open distinction is interesting because (anecdotally) I see some variation there between gay and lesbian relationships—it seems like gay dudes are more likely to be in a door-ajar couple, whereas the throuples I know are usually groups of lesbians! Conversely, I don't see many poly gay dudes or door-ajar lesbian couples, and lesbians might be more monogamous on average.

> I don't see many poly gay dudes From my experience. I only know a few poly gay men. I know far more gay couples in open relationships that have similar lines that I do when it comes to anything beyond that. I mean, for sure those lines get blurry. Things that you may traditionally associate with dating like cuddling on the couch at a party (just a party, not anything more) or similar things. But, there is still tha…

This can't be the whole story, but probably significant that gay hookup apps are light-years ahead of lesbian hookup apps :P
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