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More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

theguardian.com

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Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#31

[flagged]

If you pay someone to deliver post, and they get their leg blown of because you order them to go through a minefield, you can’t just avoid responsibility by going “that’s what they signed up for” obviously the responsibility of ensuring that the job can be carried out not physically and r safe is with the employer and workers are well within reason to demand compensation if the employer hasn’t ensured the job can be safely carried out.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#32
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn’t the backlash due to the fact that they were running detection on device against your private library?

Yes. As opposed to running it on their servers like they do now. And it was only for iCloud synced photos.

There's a huge gap between "we will scan our servers for illegal content" and "your device will scan your photos for illegal content" no matter the context. The latter makes the user's device disloyal to its owner.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#33
post #25
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"More than 140 Facebook content moderators have been diagnosed with severe post-traumatic stress disorder caused by exposure to graphic social media content including murders, suicides, child sexual abuse and terrorism." What part here are you suggesting is similar to seeing two men kissing?

[flagged]

You're lying and you know it. I remember the 80s as much as anyone else. Especially the part where Elton John and Freddy Mercury where at the peak of their popularity, unless you where living in a religious shithole but that was (and still is) a small part of the world.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#34

[flagged]

At first glance you may have a point. Thing is they’re often recruited with very promising job titles and descriptions, training on mild cases. Once they fully realize what they got themselves into the damage has been done. If they’re unlucky, quitting also means losing their house. This may help empathize a bit with their side of this argument.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#35
post #18

Perhaps if looking at pictures of disturbing things on the internet gives you PTSD than this isn’t the kind of job for you? Not everyone can be a forensic investigator or coroner, too. I know lots of people who can and do look at horrible pictures on the internet and have been doing so for 20+ years with no ill effects.

perhaps life on Kenya isn't easy as yours?

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#37
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. As opposed to running it on their servers like they do now. And it was only for iCloud synced photos.

There's a huge gap between "we will scan our servers for illegal content" and "your device will scan your photos for illegal content" no matter the context. The latter makes the user's device disloyal to its owner.

And introduces avenues for state actors to force the scanning of other material.

This was also during a time where Apple hadn’t pushed out e2ee for iCloud, so it didn’t even make sense.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#38
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe.. apple had a lot of backlash using AI to detect CSAM.

No, they had backlash against using AI on devices they don’t own to report said devices to police for having illegal files on them. There was no technical measure to ensure that the devices being searched were only being searched for CSAM, as the system can be used to search for any type of images chosen by Apple or the state. (Also, with the advent of GenAI, CSAM has been redefined to include generated imagery that…

> Also, with the advent of GenAI, CSAM has been redefined to include generated imagery that does not contain any of {children, sex, abuse}

It hasn’t been redefined. The legal definition of it in the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand has included computer generated imagery since at least the 1990s. The US Congress did the same thing in 1996, but the US Supreme Court ruled in the 2002 case of Ashcroft v Free Speech Coalition that it violated the First Amendment. [0] This predates GenAI because even in the 1990s people saw where CGI was going and could foresee this kind of thing would one day be possible.

Added to that: a lot of people misunderstand what that 2002 case held. SCOTUS case law establishes two distinct exceptions to the First Amendment – child pornography and obscenity. The first is easier to prosecute and more commonly prosecuted; the 2002 case held that "virtual child pornography" (made without the use of any actual children) does not fall into the scope of the child pornography exception – but it still falls into the scope of the obscenity exception. There is in fact a distinct federal crime for obscenity involving children as opposed to adults, 18 USC 1466A ("Obscene visual representations of the sexual abuse of children") [1] enacted in 2003 in response to this decision. Child obscenity is less commonly prosecuted, but in 2021 a Texas man was sentenced to 40 years in prison over it [2] – that wasn't for GenAI, that was for drawings and text, but if drawings fall into the legal category, obviously GenAI images will too. So actually it turns out that even in the US, GenAI materials can legally count as CSAM, if we define CSAM to include both child pornography and child obscenity – and this has been true since at least 2003, long before the GenAI era.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashcroft_v._Free_Speech_Coalit...

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1466A

[2] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/texas-man-sentenced-40-years-...

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#39

[flagged]

You think people who took these jobs had a list of job offers and were jumping for joy to be able to pick this one out? Or that they stuck with it after the first 5 minutes of moderating necrophilia because they believed other jobs would have similar downsides? You’re so out of touch with the real world and hardships people face trying to make a living for themselves and their family.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#40
post #25
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"More than 140 Facebook content moderators have been diagnosed with severe post-traumatic stress disorder caused by exposure to graphic social media content including murders, suicides, child sexual abuse and terrorism." What part here are you suggesting is similar to seeing two men kissing?

[flagged]

But we're not talking about an 80's christian mom since you proceeded to make the observation that "People are outraged by whatever they are told to be outraged over and ignore everything that they aren't".

Which is to say, being exposed to extreme violent/abusive content could only cause PTSD iff one is subject to a specific social construct that define these acts in a certain way. Let's just assume you're right, what kind of employees would that imply are immune to getting PTSD from such content given your previous observation?

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