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Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

nytimes.com

31–40 of 90 posts

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#31
post #13

So if property price drops completely because insurance do not want to insure, it should make buying houses in cash and avoid mortgage easier right? House becomes a cheap commodity, everybody can then buy a house again, insurers can insure them again because they are cheap. The market correct itself. Problem solved?

> insurers can insure them again because they are cheap I believe the main part of what the insurance payout covers is rebuilding. And rebuilding is what's expensive, moreso now than ever. So I think housing prices would crash in an uninsurable area because you might be able to buy cheaply, but you couldn't afford to rebuild when something happens. In the end, we'll all be climate refugees?

trailers are cheap to deliver

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#33
post #16
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hate this, I think. The relatively low (and I have to tick boxes for most of the high risk industries on the form) amount that I pay each year for what seems to be a nice PI policy is easily worth it for the peace of mind.

I would too I think, if I lived in the US. But the culture around law in Poland is pretty much opposite of the US. People just aren't lawsuit-happy, probably partially because the courts are inefficient and you can wait a long time for a verdict, and partially because the courts often don't award that much in those verdicts (and those absurd multi-million verdicts for trivial things that are a thing in the US would n…

Yeah, that's fair too. Admittedly my work puts me into contact with relatively litigious parties.

I think at my current premiums I would need to pay insurance for 100 or 1000 years to even get close to the sort of numbers that get thrown around for a day's worth of damages on some of these projects.

The likelihood is absolutely that nothing serious will go wrong, that if it did it wouldn't make it to the courts and furthermore that if it did it wouldn't be negligence of any kind, or was covered within the contract itself.

But the thought of having skipped out given the possible consequences; No thanks, value my sleep too much.

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#34

The climate is changing and is affecting regions we knew would be impacted by climate change 30+ years ago. The insurance companies cannot make a profit (and thus would not choose to operate) in these areas now that they're being impacted by climate change. On one hand this seems like the market working exactly as it should be. People should've moved out of these regions in the last 30 years given the information abo…

Part of the issue is state boundaries (at least in the US case).

If someone moves from Florida to Georgia, or California to Colorado, then the former state loses their tax base (even in FL: sales/corporate tax).

So it sets up a musical chairs scenario where the state in question has every incentive to keep the game going.

Which will ultimately mean (a) using state revenue to balance out insurance plans and/or (b) outright fraud and shifting the risk burden onto someone else (looking at you and Fannie/Freddie, Florida).

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#35
post #22

>Communities that are deemed too dangerous to insure face the risk of falling property values, which means less tax revenue Now that is the funnest quote I have seen in 2024. I would love to know what government will lower your property tax if your house value falls ? I have never seen that happen ever nor do I know anyone who has seen that happen over the past 40 years.

What state are you in? This is quite common in many parts of the country..

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#36
post #22

>Communities that are deemed too dangerous to insure face the risk of falling property values, which means less tax revenue Now that is the funnest quote I have seen in 2024. I would love to know what government will lower your property tax if your house value falls ? I have never seen that happen ever nor do I know anyone who has seen that happen over the past 40 years.

"I would love to know what government will lower your property tax if your house value falls ?"

Plano, TX.

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#37

The climate is changing and is affecting regions we knew would be impacted by climate change 30+ years ago. The insurance companies cannot make a profit (and thus would not choose to operate) in these areas now that they're being impacted by climate change. On one hand this seems like the market working exactly as it should be. People should've moved out of these regions in the last 30 years given the information abo…

The other hand, while very sad, is an investment mistake of each individual. 'How could I have known' is same as complaining certain stocks lost its value unexpectedly and retirement savings are now halved. In fact, most of these places were not OK decades ago but folks love cheap real estate and who gives a fuck about some doomsaying science, the cheaper the better, what could go wrong right?

Either insurances mark given county incorrectly, and some competition will eventually catch up or they marked it correctly. Now just because somebody invested in bad property (or property became bad), why should some private company bear this mistake outside contract? I don't see a reason, I wouldn't do it neither.

Real estate, often massive, ain't some Geneva convention-enforced basic human right, just an investment. Maybe good old 'if its too good to be true maybe it isn't' mantra is valid also here? Be smart folks, not greedy.

Also if the home on photos is really the one article is about, I don't see any meaningful bushfire protection. That would be at least 30 meter clear cut perimeter with just rocks between forest and house - no dry grass, pine needles etc. I see forest literally ending next to house itself, thus actual 0 protection. Yeah in a frequent fire country that house is a disaster waiting to happen soon.

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#38
This isn't because of climate change. It's because of bad laws combined with the housing chickens coming home to roost.

On the legislation front, a series of court cases and legislation combined with weak oversight meant that something like 70% of the nation's roof insurance claims were in Florida. There was clear fraud in many cases. Because of this legislation was introduced that made it difficult for any homeowner to file a legitimate claim. Combine this with under-capitalization by insurers and weak oversight and it's just a mess.

But the big one is housing. It's too expensive. And this is another inevitable consequence. It used to be that housing depreciated. That no longer seems to be the case. The replacement value is only going up. This is the foreseeable outcome of years of government policy designed to increase home values.

Ultimately we need to stop treating housing as an investment, as your retirement nest egg. All this does is steal from the next generation. That's it. Withholding shelter (ie housing) either by limiting supply through regulation and legislation or simply by pricing people out is state violence.

Housing prices need to come down. Hoarding housing needs to be massively disincentivized. We need to stop giving massive tax breaks to homeowners. None of this is popular but without major reform we're headed down a bad road.

Canada is heading towards crisis at the moment and many of its problems can be tied directly back to soaring house prices.

The consequences of high house prices are everywhere too. More expensive commercial real estate means businesses need to recoup that cost through higher prices.

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#39
post #22

>Communities that are deemed too dangerous to insure face the risk of falling property values, which means less tax revenue Now that is the funnest quote I have seen in 2024. I would love to know what government will lower your property tax if your house value falls ? I have never seen that happen ever nor do I know anyone who has seen that happen over the past 40 years.

It is very common for a home owner to have their home value decrease.

Re: Insurers Are Deserting Homeowners as Climate Shocks Worsen

#40

So if property price drops completely because insurance do not want to insure, it should make buying houses in cash and avoid mortgage easier right? House becomes a cheap commodity, everybody can then buy a house again, insurers can insure them again because they are cheap. The market correct itself. Problem solved?

>House becomes a cheap commodity,

Houses can't become a "cheap commodity" unless there are revolutionary new construction methods and/or alternative materials. E.g. something like cheap 3D printing of structural walls, ubiquitous robots, pre-fab modular rooms and roofs, etc and cheaper material alternatives to wood, concrete, tile, asphalt shingles.

Without a technological leap, traditional construction techniques will always have the baseline costs of paying expensive humans to rebuild the property. The labor costs of carpenters, plumbers, electricians, HVAC installers, roofers is ~50% or more of a house construction budget.

This means houses will always be "expensive" in relation to the average Starbuck's barista paycheck because of Baumol's "Cost Disease": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect

Put another way, we've known for several hundred years in math that the derivative of x^2 is 2x. Disseminating that knowledge should be cheap. And yet the cost(salaries) of calculus teachers and math professors (and the associated textbooks) keep going up instead of down. That's the "cost disease" similar with building houses.

That's why a bunch of insurers abandoning the market doesn't won't change the economics enough for houses to become cheap commodities. Houses prices may adjust with lower sales prices but it still won't drop to "cheap commodities" level pricing. e.g. Florida condos' prices drastically fall because the Surfside collapse triggers law requiring millions in maintenance and rising hurricane insurance rates ... Starbucks baristas still can't afford those discounted condos.

However, to your point about "market forces" creating a new equilibrium in prices... you can buy houses in Detroit for $1 but that does come with other issues:

https://old.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1ja3lm/e...

https://www.quora.com/Is-there-a-catch-to-buying-the-1-homes...

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