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Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

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Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#31

Post by timthorn »

markovs_gun wrote: post #13
bdcravens wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't any translation a product of the language norms of the translator, as opposed to a pure translation? I know when I read Spanish, I have to mentally convert the order of words to what makes sense in English (for example, "Thanksgiving" in Spanish would be "Day of Action of Thanks" if translated directly).

Yes, with the caveat that with religious texts there are certain conventions that get conserved even across languages. For example, The Book of John starts off "In the beginning, there was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." However, the term being translated here as "Word" (λόγος- logos) could easily be translated a number of different ways, and the technically literal meaning of "word" was a…

There's 3 part Radio 4 series from a while ago on the King James Version, with one of the 45 minute episodes focussed on the translation of the work: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00x3x68

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#32

Post by aziaziazi »

FearNotDaniel wrote: post #21
markovs_gun wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also claim to be reviving an ancient practice, although the evidence for that actually being true is very lacking

There is nothing in the Bible that describes the practice they promote. Sure, there is a claim that people who are filled with the Holy Spirit will not die if bitten by snakes, but no description of it being used as a ritual practice and you could claim it contradicts “do not put the Lord God to the test”. I have no idea if there is extra-biblical evidence for people doing that in early churches, and whether those ch…

Im going to cite (slightly shorten) Wikipedia. I have no competency to understand the sources and fact check but I though it’s quite interesting.

> In the 2nd century the Ophites reportedly handled snakes during their services, and also worshipped the serpent.

> The Ophites […] were a Christian Gnostic sect.

> Gnosticism […] is a collection of religious ideas and systems that coalesced in the late 1st century AD among Jewish and early Christian sects. These diverse groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) above the proto-orthodox teachings, traditions, and authority of religious institutions.

Seems very reasonable sects to me but it’s understandable "authorities of religious institutions" didn’t like it.

Indeed extra biblical gospel from Luke and Mark:

> Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

> And these signs shall follow them that believe: In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

IMHO Gospels are comparable with the Bible as a source of history.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#33

Post by joshdata »

bdcravens wrote: post #7
FearNotDaniel wrote: post #3

Fascinating from both a technological and theological/ecclesiological perspective. I'll be sure to pass this on to some of my faith-filled friends who now live south of the Alps but have roots in the same region. > inhumation burials — a practice uncommon in other Roman cemeteries in Frankfurt To save others looking it up: "inhumation burial" seems to be a technical term in the field for what we simply call "burial",…

My wife is Messianic Jewish, where the primary intent is to restore Jewish traditions and beliefs while still believing in Jesus/Yeshua ("Jesus" being essentially a mispronunciation; the westernized version of the name would more accurately be "Joshua"). Personally my beliefs lie elsewhere, but it's still unfortunate that "denomination" is still such a tiny minority, given its desire to be a purer form of the religio…

The unfortunate part is where Christians try to pass themselves off as Jews by adding "Jewish" to the name of their denomination. I wish my great aunts and uncles could have added "Christian" to their denomination to escape being murdered in the Holocaust, that would have been nice.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#35

Post by ahaferburg »

FearNotDaniel wrote: post #12
hoseja wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inhumation isn't exclusively christian where did you even come up with that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9An%C4%9Btice_culture#Buri...

Didn’t come up with it, didn’t claim it. Where did you come up with the idea that I said it was exclusive to Christianity?

You wrote "one could infer that this is an indicator of Here Be Christians".

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#36

Post by galangalalgol »

bdcravens wrote: post #7
FearNotDaniel wrote: post #3

Fascinating from both a technological and theological/ecclesiological perspective. I'll be sure to pass this on to some of my faith-filled friends who now live south of the Alps but have roots in the same region. > inhumation burials — a practice uncommon in other Roman cemeteries in Frankfurt To save others looking it up: "inhumation burial" seems to be a technical term in the field for what we simply call "burial",…

My wife is Messianic Jewish, where the primary intent is to restore Jewish traditions and beliefs while still believing in Jesus/Yeshua ("Jesus" being essentially a mispronunciation; the westernized version of the name would more accurately be "Joshua"). Personally my beliefs lie elsewhere, but it's still unfortunate that "denomination" is still such a tiny minority, given its desire to be a purer form of the religio…

Isn't it Yesu, the diminutive, so Josh? "Josh is the name above all names", sounds kind of odd though.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#37

Post by Cthulhu_ »

FearNotDaniel wrote: post #5
Oarch wrote: post #4

I'll never be able to read about us digitally unrolling fragile scrolls without it seemingly like otherworldly sci-fi technology. The translated blessing text itself seems almost modern. Funny to see how little we've changed in some ways.

Speaking as a participant in a number of somewhat "modern" Christian traditions, I think one factor is that we have changed quite a lot and then some strands of the faith have decided to go back into the past and seek what we lost from the early days. One example being certain rock'n'roll churches where people stick their hands up in the air while singing and praying: I heard one pastor defend this as being "this is…

Thing is, Christianity is (should be? idk) based on the teachings of Jesus which separated from Judaism; on prayer and worship, the New Testament has teachings like:

> Matthew 6:5-14 > 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

That is, he teaches a humble, private, and not-showy way of praying, as opposed to the Jews of their time. But this is causing tension and schisms in Christian churches everywhere. I grew up in a fairly conservative one - grey suits, quiet / low energy services, nothing too outlandish. But family of mine ended up in more Evangelical churches, with live music and the like. Then there's Catholics where opulence and grandeur is apparent in their cathedrals, and while I can appreciate them for their architecture and atmosphere and the like, I don't think that's in line with Jesus' teachings of humility and helping the poor etc, especially not given how much money goes and went around in the church.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#38

Post by Cthulhu_ »

galangalalgol wrote: post #36
bdcravens wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is Messianic Jewish, where the primary intent is to restore Jewish traditions and beliefs while still believing in Jesus/Yeshua ("Jesus" being essentially a mispronunciation; the westernized version of the name would more accurately be "Joshua"). Personally my beliefs lie elsewhere, but it's still unfortunate that "denomination" is still such a tiny minority, given its desire to be a purer form of the religio…

Isn't it Yesu, the diminutive, so Josh? "Josh is the name above all names", sounds kind of odd though.

Only because of your own cultural background / upbringing where Josh was a pretty normal and non-reverent name, like how people like me one day realise there's a whole culture of people out there where Jesus is still a common and popular first name, instead of something reserved for a religious figure.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#39

Post by Cthulhu_ »

andrepd wrote: post #20
bdcravens wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife is Messianic Jewish, where the primary intent is to restore Jewish traditions and beliefs while still believing in Jesus/Yeshua ("Jesus" being essentially a mispronunciation; the westernized version of the name would more accurately be "Joshua"). Personally my beliefs lie elsewhere, but it's still unfortunate that "denomination" is still such a tiny minority, given its desire to be a purer form of the religio…

Every religion thinks they're the "purer" form of religion though, don't they? x)

Not necessarily, they consider themselves right / proper or just prefer it over other flavours though (example being the many branches of Protestantism where each branch has a slightly different take on how things should be done, but it's not like they're at odds with each other per se)
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