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Includeable minimal operating system for C++

includeos.org

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Re: Includeable minimal operating system for C++

#31

Post by fwsgonzo »

mserdarsanli wrote: post #29
a2128 wrote: post #11

What's with the recommendation for a YouTube MP3 converter near the bottom? There seems to be no technological relation so I can only guess the author got paid to include it, but you're legally supposed to disclose if something is a paid ad

according to wayback machine the domain expired at the end of 2021. Months later it came back with the sneaky ad. Their page at github https://includeos.github.io/ does not have it. It is safe to assume whoever grabbed the domain has no association to the authors. Project has been dead for many years now btw.

You're completely right. It's a squatter and he wants money. The project is not dead, however. It's currently used for research at University of Oslo, and I think we can expect much more activity in the coming years, such as ARM support.

I might add RISC-V support myself, as I am the author of libriscv. We'll see.

Re: Includeable minimal operating system for C++

#32

Post by mgaunard »

It's cool, but this only runs with VirtIO hardware.

If you need real-time low-latency, you don't want any virtual hardware.

I'm not sure what's the practical application here. Either you use containers because you have complex dependencies so you want to just package the whole thing in isolation, or you don't and you might as well run as a normal process. Here you have a simple self-contained executable image anyway.

But to be honest I never understood the point of virtualization.

Re: Includeable minimal operating system for C++

#33

Post by PittleyDunkin »

gpderetta wrote: post #6

This seems very interesting! But... "So IncludeOS can compile C and C++ applications natively. Currently, these are the only programming languages supported. We’ll add support for other language runtimes in 2019." Last blog update is 2019. Is the project still alive? edit: github shows recent activity, so it is encouraging.

Ok but the C abi includes basically all languages. Frankly they could toss C++ in the trash with basically zero impact to their value because who the hell with two neurons to rub together uses C++ anymore?

(Ok this leaves out Go but they picked their path)

Besides, supporting c++ must be a goddamn nightmare.

Re: Includeable minimal operating system for C++

#34

Post by johndough »

fwsgonzo wrote: post #30
johndough wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The members seem to mostly be from Norway and Norway has a law against "hidden" advertising, which I believe applies here.

We are indeed Norwegian! The domain is owned by a squatter now. He wants EUR 3000 to release it back to us. It's simply too much right now. So, I wish that this HN post could change from the squatter URL to GitHub instead.

@dang can change the URL to https://github.com/includeos/IncludeOS

Re: Includeable minimal operating system for C++

#35

Post by PittleyDunkin »

mserdarsanli wrote: post #29
a2128 wrote: post #11

What's with the recommendation for a YouTube MP3 converter near the bottom? There seems to be no technological relation so I can only guess the author got paid to include it, but you're legally supposed to disclose if something is a paid ad

according to wayback machine the domain expired at the end of 2021. Months later it came back with the sneaky ad. Their page at github https://includeos.github.io/ does not have it. It is safe to assume whoever grabbed the domain has no association to the authors. Project has been dead for many years now btw.

> Project has been dead for many years now btw.

Code doesn't die. Especially code targetting the c abi.

Re: Includeable minimal operating system for C++

#36

Post by PittleyDunkin »

wrs wrote: post #20
jagged-chisel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a legal requirement? I thought it (disclaiming ads) was something one did to avoid the proverbial pitchforks and nothing more.

The FTC has guidance on when it considers a compensated endorsement to be "deceptive advertising", which is something they can legally enforce. [0] [0] https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/ftcs-endorse...

This seems like a farce. Most advertising in america is deceptive.

Edit: they seem to only enforce disclosure and they don't actually evaluate whether the ad is deceptive or not. Still this does seem to foreclose on the domain user in question's use of ads, if anyone cares

> If the advertiser doesn’t have proof that the endorser’s experience represents what people will generally achieve using the product as described in the ad (for example, by just taking a pill daily for two months), an ad featuring that endorser must make clear to the audience what the generally expected results of following that same regimen are.

Pathetic and spineless. If this were actually enforced 99.99% of ad claims would be illegal.

Re: Includeable minimal operating system for C++

#37

Post by erichocean »

There's almost no reason to do anything weird with operating systems today, because you can run Linux on a single core of your multi-core machine, and your app at full throttle (no context switching) on the remaining cores.

So for the cost of , you get full Linux, full debuggability, SSH, file systems, networking, etc. and your app still runs as fast as it can on the CPU.

Spend your innovation budget on your app, not the OS.

Re: Includeable minimal operating system for C++

#38

Post by eyberg »

dangerwill wrote: post #13

Oh this is wildly cool! Do cloud providers like aws allow you to upload a custom system image to run as a vm?

Absolutely. Everyone who deploys unikernels to the public clouds does this. Some are better fits than others. AWS for instance you can build an image and deploy an ec2 instance in a matter of seconds.

Re: Includeable minimal operating system for C++

#39

Post by gpderetta »

PittleyDunkin wrote: post #33
gpderetta wrote: post #6

This seems very interesting! But... "So IncludeOS can compile C and C++ applications natively. Currently, these are the only programming languages supported. We’ll add support for other language runtimes in 2019." Last blog update is 2019. Is the project still alive? edit: github shows recent activity, so it is encouraging.

Ok but the C abi includes basically all languages. Frankly they could toss C++ in the trash with basically zero impact to their value because who the hell with two neurons to rub together uses C++ anymore? (Ok this leaves out Go but they picked their path) Besides, supporting c++ must be a goddamn nightmare .

> who the hell with two neurons to rub together uses C++ anymore?

I don't know. Then again I had my mandatory lobotomy when I started to professionally program in C++ 20 years ago (and still do to this day).

Re: Includeable minimal operating system for C++

#40

Post by gpderetta »

erichocean wrote: post #37

There's almost no reason to do anything weird with operating systems today, because you can run Linux on a single core of your multi-core machine, and your app at full throttle (no context switching) on the remaining cores. So for the cost of , you get full Linux, full debuggability, SSH, file systems, networking, etc. and your app still runs as fast as it can on the CPU. Spend your innovation budget on your app, not…

You get another layer of address space separation.

Then again, you can run a linux vm on one core and your unikernel app on the other cores on top of an hypervisor.

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