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Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

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Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#31

Post by VTimofeenko »

arrdalan wrote: post #28
VTimofeenko wrote: post #12

I've been a happy user of frigate ( https://frigate.video ) with fully local isolated setup: multiple poe cameras on a dedicated network, coral to supplement on-camera recognition, HA+Prometheus for alerts and smarts. Excited to see another project, especially in Rust(not for the memes; python env management has bit me a few times when hacking). One major gripe with frigate that I have is the way it treats detection…

A fully isolated setup on a dedicated network can certainly provide good privacy. A key benefit of Privastead is that it can send the videos to your smartphone remotely using a strong (MLS-based) end-to-end encryption. And I share your excitement about Rust. :-)

The remote access part can be solved by wireguard or tailscale for less hands-on approach. Ntfy.sh/telegram/whatever cool kids use these days for notifications.

This and my previous comment probably amount to a full Dropbox comment now :)

Can you elaborate on the sending video part -- do you transfer the whole file or a link to the file on the server? Curious about the replication piece I mentioned

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#32

Post by arrdalan »

VTimofeenko wrote: post #31
arrdalan wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fully isolated setup on a dedicated network can certainly provide good privacy. A key benefit of Privastead is that it can send the videos to your smartphone remotely using a strong (MLS-based) end-to-end encryption. And I share your excitement about Rust. :-)

The remote access part can be solved by wireguard or tailscale for less hands-on approach. Ntfy.sh/telegram/whatever cool kids use these days for notifications. This and my previous comment probably amount to a full Dropbox comment now :) Can you elaborate on the sending video part -- do you transfer the whole file or a link to the file on the server? Curious about the replication piece I mentioned

Privastead uses end-to-end encryption between the hub and the app. The hub encrypts the whole video file and sends it (through an untrusted server) to the app. The app will have a local copy of the video. The hub deletes the video upon delivery to the app. The server never has access to the unecrypted video.

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#33

Post by hunter2_ »

hughesjj wrote: post #23
stevenpetryk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you found cameras you’re happy with? That’s the main thing holding me back is not knowing a good PoE camera to use.

Hikvision and reolink are highly rated onvif ones that support poe, but as long as the camera support ONVIF from there just compare as normal

Search for "Hikvision compromised" though. The results are damning. I suppose there's not much of a concern if using a proper firewall on a managed network, however.

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#34

Post by windexh8er »

arrdalan wrote: post #28
VTimofeenko wrote: post #12

I've been a happy user of frigate ( https://frigate.video ) with fully local isolated setup: multiple poe cameras on a dedicated network, coral to supplement on-camera recognition, HA+Prometheus for alerts and smarts. Excited to see another project, especially in Rust(not for the memes; python env management has bit me a few times when hacking). One major gripe with frigate that I have is the way it treats detection…

A fully isolated setup on a dedicated network can certainly provide good privacy. A key benefit of Privastead is that it can send the videos to your smartphone remotely using a strong (MLS-based) end-to-end encryption. And I share your excitement about Rust. :-)

I've been using locally hosted NVRs going on two decades now and so I definitely appreciate another local NVR option. But given the current lack of common requirements (e.g. more than 1 camera), curious if you're seeing any usage outside of your own? As others have mentioned Frigate is filling a nice gap for many, currently. I can only connect to it via a VPN I control and I can easily get notifications via Home Assistant.

I feel as though I have protection of getting the feeds to my phone securely, already. And while I'd love to be able to trust exposing Frigate and making it more accessible, I really don't have a need nor would I as the barrier to entry is already low enough to not impose much friction.

My intent isn't to dissuade you (obviously you wrote it for yourself) but I'd be curious if implementing a more secure transport in an existing OSS NVR that has traction was something you considered?

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#35

Post by hipitihop »

hughesjj wrote: post #23
stevenpetryk wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you found cameras you’re happy with? That’s the main thing holding me back is not knowing a good PoE camera to use.

Hikvision and reolink are highly rated onvif ones that support poe, but as long as the camera support ONVIF from there just compare as normal

I can second Frigate and welcome any work in this space, so nice work OP will have a look. For others asking, I have found so far Hikvision POE PTZ domes like DS-2DE2A404IW-DE3 have been reliable, depends on your budget. I have cams themselves fully locked down from internet and on a separate subnet on the local net. OPNSense is also a friend here. I would love some OSS firmware for these cams. For remote, I find ZeroTier to Frigate & Home Assistant machines is all I need. I get why others WireGuard too. YMMV

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#36

Post by tehlike »

arrdalan wrote: post #32
VTimofeenko wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The remote access part can be solved by wireguard or tailscale for less hands-on approach. Ntfy.sh/telegram/whatever cool kids use these days for notifications. This and my previous comment probably amount to a full Dropbox comment now :) Can you elaborate on the sending video part -- do you transfer the whole file or a link to the file on the server? Curious about the replication piece I mentioned

Privastead uses end-to-end encryption between the hub and the app. The hub encrypts the whole video file and sends it (through an untrusted server) to the app. The app will have a local copy of the video. The hub deletes the video upon delivery to the app. The server never has access to the unecrypted video.

WebRTC might provide a good way to handle this.

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#37

Post by arrdalan »

windexh8er wrote: post #34
arrdalan wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fully isolated setup on a dedicated network can certainly provide good privacy. A key benefit of Privastead is that it can send the videos to your smartphone remotely using a strong (MLS-based) end-to-end encryption. And I share your excitement about Rust. :-)

I've been using locally hosted NVRs going on two decades now and so I definitely appreciate another local NVR option. But given the current lack of common requirements (e.g. more than 1 camera), curious if you're seeing any usage outside of your own? As others have mentioned Frigate is filling a nice gap for many, currently. I can only connect to it via a VPN I control and I can easily get notifications via Home Assi…

Your local setup plus VPN/wireguard is a good design. For me, port forwarding on my router was a no-go due to the increased attack surface. Therefore, I wanted to use the cloud to route the videos and hence I decided to use a strong end-to-end encryption scheme (MLS).

Regarding the limitation you mentioned: I plan to address them. The next task on my plate is to support multiple cameras. :-)

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#38

Post by arrdalan »

hathawsh wrote: post #27
arrdalan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use Home Assistant in an isolated local network with no Internet access, you will have good privacy. However, I needed to be able to use my camera remotely from my phone. That's when using strong end-to-end encryption becomes critical. Home Assistant seems to provide two options for remote access: https://www.home-assistant.io/docs/configuration/securing/ One option is to expose your instance to the Internet a…

A third option is to set up a Wireguard service and expose the web UI only through the VPN. I use the Wireguard app to connect my phone to my VPN. This solution seems very safe to me. Are there risks I'm not thinking of?

That's definitely better, if done right. I still prefer to avoid port forwarding on my router if possible. The fewer attack surfaces I have to worry about, the better.

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#39

Post by arrdalan »

tehlike wrote: post #36
arrdalan wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privastead uses end-to-end encryption between the hub and the app. The hub encrypts the whole video file and sends it (through an untrusted server) to the app. The app will have a local copy of the video. The hub deletes the video upon delivery to the app. The server never has access to the unecrypted video.

WebRTC might provide a good way to handle this.

Yes, indeed. Using WebRTC and MLS together should provide good performance and privacy. In fact, Discord recently did that: https://discord.com/blog/meet-dave-e2ee-for-audio-video

It's something I plan to look into at some point.

Re: Show HN: Open-source private home security camera system (end-to-end encryption)

#40

Post by gauge_field »

globalnode wrote: post #7

You are a champion, thank you for this. Will have a look at it when time permits. I've had an irrational and random dislike for anything Rust for some reason... probably because big business seems to like it, but will have to choke on that for this project :)

Regarding big business, I kind of have the opposite reaction that it has been more community maintained and been the one of the reasons I kind of admired it as a software project. They also tried to make this choice clear by making the tools, documents as accessible as possible.

If you look at the history of Rust, the crates, cargo-team, etc, it is mostly community maintained.

An example of such community-oriented large project is Bevy.

It was only when libraries, rust itself was mature enough, the big tech companies started get involved (apart from Mozilla of course).

Whenever the project gets big and important enough, it will get attraction from large companies. The same is true for C++, as well.

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