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Petnames: A humane approach to secure, decentralized naming

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Re: Petnames: A humane approach to secure, decentralized naming

#31
It frustrates me that domain names were designed to be a rival good, and that this has attracted so much attention from speculators, and the negative externalities that come out of that. I'm not sure what would be a good solution here.

The existing design of domain names does have one important property, though. When someone successfully registers a name, they're guaranteed that they can pay a renewal fee - small, all things considered - and keep the name as long as they want - perhaps modulo legal and ToS concerns. This gives them assurances that they can invest into the branding of the name and keep the benefits.

Compare that with search engine results. I mentioned elsewhere in this thread that I watched numerous non-technical users treat their browser nav bar as a name resolution mechanism - effectively delegating name resolution to their default search engine. Search engine results should change over time. If someone starts a FooBar Inc. in one industry, and someone else starts a bigger FooBar Corp. in another, who gets the "foobar" name?

A sort of "pin on first use" would save existing users of FooBar Inc. New users trying to find FooBar Inc. might get confused though. FooBar Inc. would understandably be hesitant to print the "foobar" petname on their business cards and billboards.

Re: Petnames: A humane approach to secure, decentralized naming

#32
post #30

Contacts are just a toy example, aren't they? Else this is a privacy nightmare waiting to happen: It's easy to accidentially share numbers. Also it might turn out your new friend J. is superficially pleasant, but actually a horrible human being once you get to know them - congratulations, J. has access to all your shared contacts. If I was friends with Alice, I'd be very annoyed that J. is now harassing me. Or suppos…

A contacts list is a superset of the publicly available connections that would make up a web of trust. Out of all my contacts, there are a few people that I would be willing to vouch for. As in: declare publicly that I know who they are, and reveal the name that I refer to them as.

That pet name may be different from person to person, but that's fine. Alice might call a public key "Bobby's Public Key", and Charlie might call it "Robert's Public Key". I can make sense of those attestations when I'm trying to verify that I have Bob's key, and assign it my own pet name. If Alice or Charlie weren't willing to publicly attest to the Bob-ness of the same public key then I wouldn't be looking at their attestations.

Re: Petnames: A humane approach to secure, decentralized naming

#33
post #30

Contacts are just a toy example, aren't they? Else this is a privacy nightmare waiting to happen: It's easy to accidentially share numbers. Also it might turn out your new friend J. is superficially pleasant, but actually a horrible human being once you get to know them - congratulations, J. has access to all your shared contacts. If I was friends with Alice, I'd be very annoyed that J. is now harassing me. Or suppos…

To reinforce the real-world value of contact secrecy, let me share an example of how WhatsApp's contact broadcasting is creating massive opportunities for scammers where I live (Mexico).

In WhatsApp, when you join a "community" (sort of like a giant, moderated group), all members of the community are visible to all other members. You can see their phone numbers and their self-chosen nickname. Note that very frequently people will have their names or a shortened version of their name as their nickname.

In emerging markets, people use WhatsApp for everything and many people will naturally join a few communities. Things like:

- A community for your kid's school

- A community for your neighborhood's safety alerts.

- A community for a club or hobby.

So a scammer's workflow is as follows:

1. Infiltrate a community or a group.

2. Check all of the members and find those whose names are publicly shared or you can deduce.

3. Use their name, phone and--crucially--information about the community itself to craft a targeted phishing phone call.

Example:

Sandra is a part of a community for neighborhood safety news. The community is called "Hillsborough safety." Her whatsapp nickname is "Sandy Williams."

A scammer will join the community and see her contact. They will then call her with a message like "Hi, is this Sandra Williams? Yes, I'm calling from the Hillsborough police department. Unfortunately there's been an accident with your husband...".

You can imagine how the simple fact of knowing someoen's name and some sort of "proprietary knowledge" (they know I live at Hillside!) can be enought to for a victim to lower their defenses.

An additional layer to this is that often the scammer will social-engineer their way into gaining access to the victim's Whatsapp account itself. They can then access all of the groups that victim was a member of, including "tight" friend groups, etc.

IMHO contact broadcasting is an inexcusable design decision by WhatsApp.

Re: Petnames: A humane approach to secure, decentralized naming

#34
post #30

Contacts are just a toy example, aren't they? Else this is a privacy nightmare waiting to happen: It's easy to accidentially share numbers. Also it might turn out your new friend J. is superficially pleasant, but actually a horrible human being once you get to know them - congratulations, J. has access to all your shared contacts. If I was friends with Alice, I'd be very annoyed that J. is now harassing me. Or suppos…

Yes, I think this was a really bad example, and something without humans would have been better, so for example naming of cloud server resources.

With real world names there's also the messy issue of name changes and dead-naming. If Alice changes her (his) name to Bob, but Eve keeps Alice in as Alice, you'd have mutual contacts seeing still referring to Bob as Alice.

There are also of course the privacy concerns you mentioned, despite any optionality of sharing contacts.

Here's a problem that this does potentially solve:

"Two different cloud orchestrators need to be able to create servers which may get referenced by servers they each create. Coordinating unique names would be difficult".

Although that's an odd problem, and it's already solved in a similar way by other hierarchical naming structures with authorities such as domains, which is essentially what this pattern is describing in a roundabout way.

"com" names everything under it. "example.com" names everything under that, etc. Multiple different paths can point to the same resource.

Re: Petnames: A humane approach to secure, decentralized naming

#35
This is excellent. I think it's only really missing one thing: curation.

There is an example of moderation: the bizdir business directory. This is really useful, since Dr. Jane Nym is able to find an explicitly trusted contact for Pizza Piano. The problem is that she isn't able to implicitly share either the contact itself (Pizza Piano) or its source of trustworthiness (bizdir) with Ben Bitdiddle. In practice, this forces Ben to fallback on Caller ID, which is precisely the system we intend to replace!

This is the failure of moderation in decentralized networks. Traditional moderation is founded on authoritative hierarchy, which is exactly what decentralization removes from the system. To replace it, we need a decentralized alternative to moderation. I propose curation: each user curates their list of trusted contacts, and publishes it as a list of attestations. The bizdir business directory could actually be a good example of this, so long as we clarify some particulars.

Consider "bizdir" as a participating user of the decentralized network. The bizdir user has published a list of attestations, including the contact for Pizza Piano. There is an opportunity here for Dr. Jane Nym to replicate bizdir's attestation of Pizza Piano, thereby solving the problem for Ben Bitdiddle without requiring his involvement. When Dr. Jane Nym calls Pizza Piano, she is implicitly validating it as a genuine contact. Why not make that explicit? At the end of the call, her petname/contacts app may ask if she trusts the number she just called; or she may have it configured to do so automatically. If she ever finds a reason to distrust the Pizza Piano contact, then she can tell the app to publicly attest her distrust.

So what's the difference here? Isn't bizdir functionally identical, whether presented as a curating user or an authoritative moderator? The difference is that, as a curator, bizdir is explicitly redundant. Ben Bitdiddle doesn't need to interact with bizdir at all. He can benefit from it secondhand via Dr. Jane Nym's redundant "bizdir => Pizza Piano" attestation. On top of that, the validity of Pizza Piano's contact info has been attested to Ben twice, which can only help to drown out any potential outdated or fraudulent Pizza Piano listings. This pattern can feed back into itself, such that Dr. Jane Nym would never have actually relied on bizdir alone as a source of trust, because many of Pizza Piano's customers will have already publicly verified the same attestation.

---

The utility of curation can extend anywhere we expect moderation. The greatest struggle for decentralized social networks is that they are immediately overcrowded by taboo content. Anyone who has been banned from traditional moderated platforms will try to build their home on your decentralized one; after all, one of the core features of decentralization is the circumvention of censorship. The problem is that most of the content that gets banned from centralized platforms is content that the average person is genuinely disinterested in. Just because we want to welcome free speech, doesn't mean we want to spend our time reading hate, watching trauma, or arguing with bullshitters. In order to make a space where regular people willingly participate, we must give users equal power to not participate. We can accomplish this with curation.

Essentially, curation is a shift in strategy. Rather than demanding everyone accept the blatantly false attestation, "this content does not exist" (a moderator ban), we can collectively attest, "this content is garbage", and get back to sharing the rest.

Re: Petnames: A humane approach to secure, decentralized naming

#36
post #30

Contacts are just a toy example, aren't they? Else this is a privacy nightmare waiting to happen: It's easy to accidentially share numbers. Also it might turn out your new friend J. is superficially pleasant, but actually a horrible human being once you get to know them - congratulations, J. has access to all your shared contacts. If I was friends with Alice, I'd be very annoyed that J. is now harassing me. Or suppos…

This complaint and thinking of other simple but sliiiightly more advanced permission/privacy systems reminds me of G+ circles - kinda wish it'd have taken off. I thought it was a pretty neat system.

Re: Petnames: A humane approach to secure, decentralized naming

#39
post #30

Contacts are just a toy example, aren't they? Else this is a privacy nightmare waiting to happen: It's easy to accidentially share numbers. Also it might turn out your new friend J. is superficially pleasant, but actually a horrible human being once you get to know them - congratulations, J. has access to all your shared contacts. If I was friends with Alice, I'd be very annoyed that J. is now harassing me. Or suppos…

> Else this is a privacy nightmare waiting to happen: It's easy to accidentially share numbers.

That's a critical implementation detail, but I think it can be done. All we need to do is make contact-sharing an explicit feature.

> But that's essentially re-inventing social networks with a narrow focus.

Yes it is. That's the utility of decentralized networks: by removing the hierarchy from the network, we have removed the explicitly drawn context. Instead, the context is implicit and flexible. There are pros and cons to this feature. Instead of segmenting "twitterverse", "facebookverse", etc.; we simply have "the universe". The same boundaries can be replicated, but the lines are drawn by the users instead of by the platform, all while preserving compatibility across those lines.

My answer to this change is to replace moderation with curation. I get into this distinction more in my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42238201

As far as privacy in curated networks goes, I think we could find some interesting strategies to accomplish it. One could be anonymous pseudonyms: publish the attestations you don't want traced back to you as an explicitly not-you user. Another could be attestation laundering: provide a publicly available user (that anyone can use) that publishes a collection of attestations as if it was the original publisher, and let collaborators vote on that user's overall validity via attestation.

Essentially, we must contend with the inverted hierarchy that decentralized networks are made of. It's definitely a change, but I think can provide a lot more utility than centralized networks provide today.

Re: Petnames: A humane approach to secure, decentralized naming

#40

There are some niceties here, but I think this is a little thin on the security aspects of the scheme: it's not clear how users establish the authenticity of transitively received petnames, for example. More fundamentally, there's a factor outside of Zooko's triangle: trust isn't really transitive[1]. I trust my doctor and my doctor trusts their sibling, but I don't necessarily trust their sibling. With that being sa…

> I trust my doctor and my doctor trusts their sibling, but I don't necessarily trust their sibling.

Sure, but let's get back to the use case we are exploring here: Do you trust your doctor's contact info for their sibling? Could it provide you utility? What about your doctor's contact info for the front desk of their practice?

What's important here is that the subject of trust is explicit to whoever attests that trust. If your doctor intentionally publishes a list of known contacts, then it can be reasonably presumed that they know those contacts. This, along with the ability to attest falsehood, should be enough to replace traditional authority and moderation.

I get into this more in my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42238201

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