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Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

flightglobal.com

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Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#31
post #9

FYI: nm = nautical miles, not nanometers.

[flagged]

Sorry no. One interpretation, especially on this site, is that the problem was some kind of database bug, maybe where the same location was entered twice and a tiny location error ended up creating two locations.

I expect that out of any random sample 500 million literate and mentally healthy English speakers, more than 450 million of them are totally unaccustomed to thinking about nautical miles ever. Even people in science, or even who might have dealt with nanometers in school do not typically think about nautical miles unless they are sailors or airplane pilots.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#33
I don't know how long that failure mode has been in place or if this is relevant, but it makes me think of analogous times I've encountered similar:

When automated systems are first put in place, for something high risk, "just shut down if you see something that may be an error" is a totally reasonable plan. After all, literally yesterday they were all functioning without the automated system, if it doesn't seem to be working right better switch back to the manual process we were all using yesterday, instead of risk a catastrophe.

In that situation, switching back to yesterday's workflow is something that won't interrupt much.

A couple decades -- or honestly even just a couple years -- later, that same fault system, left in place without much consideration because it rarely is triggered -- is itself catastrophic, switching back to a rarely used and much more inefficient manual process is extremely disruptive, and even itself raises the risk of catastrophic mistakes.

The general engineering challenge, is how we deal with little-used little-seen functionality (definitely thinking of fault-handling, but there may be other cases) that is totally reasonable when put in place, but has not aged well, and nobody has noticed or realized it, and even if they did it might be hard to convince anyone it's a priority to improve, and the longer you wait the more expensive.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#34

You know there's a software engineer somewhere that saw this as a potential problem, brought up a solution, and had that solution rejected because handling it would add 40 hours of work to a project.

... or there's a software engineer somewhere who simply assumed that three letter navaid identifiers were globally unique, and baked that assumption into the code. I guess we now need a "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Aviation Data" site :)

Or even more straightforward, just don’t believe anyone 100% knows what they are doing until they exhaustively list every assumption they are making.

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#36

Good news: the system successfully detected an error and didn't send bad data to air traffic controllers. Bad News: the system can't recover from an error in an individual flight plan, bringing the whole system down with it (along with the backup system since it was running the same code).

[deleted]

Re: Air traffic failure caused by two locations 3600nm apart sharing 3-letter code

#39
I've posted this here before, but they really need globally unique codes for all the airports, waypoints, etc, it's crazy there are collisions. People always balk at this for some reason but look at the edge cases that can occur, it's crazy CRAZY
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