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The English Paradox: Four decades of life and language in Japan

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Re: The English Paradox: Four decades of life and language in Japan

#31

Post by ranger_danger »

skhr0680 wrote: post #4

Until Japanese have an economic reason to learn English, they will continue to participate in the educational equivalent of get-rich-quick schemes instead of actually getting good. It's a great example of the "Galapagos syndrome". There is English education at school, but it is based entirely on rote repetition and exercises instead of y'know, understanding the language. There are "English Conversation Schools", but…

I believe that reason is increasing at a higher pace in the last few years and will only keep increasing. Japan continues to bring in more foreigners both for work and as tourists, and their usual tactics of dealing with foreigners and other "problems" by cutting off the nose to spite the face (Gion, Mt Fuji Lawson, Shibuya Halloween etc.) won't work forever.

Re: The English Paradox: Four decades of life and language in Japan

#32

Post by lmm »

skhr0680 wrote: post #26
lmm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Poor priority in schooling and teaching to the test are hardly unique to Japan.

"Other countries have problems too" OK, let's just give up trying to improve then.

"Japan has the exact same problem as many other countries. This is a perfect example of Galapagos syndrome"

Re: The English Paradox: Four decades of life and language in Japan

#33

Post by cen4 »

minebreaker wrote: post #20

A few random thoughts from a Japanese programmer: (warning: not gonna be fun read) * As far as I can tell, most Japanese programmers can read at least some portion of English software documentations * English in Japan is always about the U.S. Not the U.K, not South Africa, not Singapore. I still remember my English teacher in the university, who was from South Africa, complained about that he was always assumed to be…

What do you feel about the LDP loosing? Step in the right direction?

Re: The English Paradox: Four decades of life and language in Japan

#34

Post by unrealhoang »

sodfj11240 wrote: post #21
wdutch wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The notion of “fairness” dominates English education policy in Japan. Because of the importance of educational credentials in Japanese life, any policy that seems to favor one group or another—the rich, the urban, children with highly-educated parents, or children who happen to have acquired English fluency on their own—will attract popular opposition. I teach ESL in Vietnam. The above quote boggles my mind. I've t…

I think it's more apt to compare between Korea / China / Japan where the written language is not Latin-based. From my experience, most Vietnamese students catch up quickly with extra-curricular English class during their 4 years university.

Not really, there's little to almost no difference in English literacy between Viet, Korea & China. Yet there's a big gap compare to Japan, the reason is either culture and economic incentive rather than because of the native script.

In Japanese TV, you can even see that for influencers (idols, singers, comedians) being bad in English is considered a cute "feature", this is uniquely apply to Japan.

Re: The English Paradox: Four decades of life and language in Japan

#35

Post by tkgally »

minebreaker wrote: post #30
sien wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you think it compares to various European countries? Say, Germany, Spain, Italy (or any that you're familiar with). Northern Europeans seem to be fantastic at learning languages. It's surprising the rest of the world doesn't copy what they do.

To be fair, it's much easier to learn English if your mother tongue is a variant of Indo-European.

Yes, I was about to say the same thing. The similarities of vocabulary and grammar among those languages make it easier for speakers of one language to learn another.

Also, it seems to be easier for people to learn another language when they already know two or three. As Europe is more multilingual than Japan, more Europeans have a head start at acquiring additional languages.

There may be other factors—stronger attachment to one’s native language and culture, resistance to seeming different from one’s peers—that make it harder for people of some nationalities to acquire foreign languages. But such claims are difficult to verify and can easily sink into superficial stereotypes, so I will be a cowardly academic and decline to take a position.

Re: The English Paradox: Four decades of life and language in Japan

#36

Post by aapoalas »

minebreaker wrote: post #20

A few random thoughts from a Japanese programmer: (warning: not gonna be fun read) * As far as I can tell, most Japanese programmers can read at least some portion of English software documentations * English in Japan is always about the U.S. Not the U.K, not South Africa, not Singapore. I still remember my English teacher in the university, who was from South Africa, complained about that he was always assumed to be…

フィンランド人のプログラマーです。日本で２年ぐらい住みまして、英語のことや、日本のエリートのことは「植民地」って言われるのが初耳ですが…そう言われみれば、その通ですね。日本も確かに、言われた通、ユニークと特別なものではないです。もちろん、特別なところあるが、各国がそれぞれで様々な魅力や個性があります。

大変興味深いな書き込みでした。ありがとうございました。

Re: The English Paradox: Four decades of life and language in Japan

#38

Post by SiVal »

tkgally wrote: post #2

I am the author of this article and will be interested to read HNers’ thoughts and discussion about the topic. I will also be happy to respond to questions.

Ah, I thought your name sounded familiar! In 2008, I bought "Reading Japanese with a Smile" on a trip to Japan and loved it. It was very well done and perfect for me. I ended up buying two copies and for years I kept checking on Kinokuniya visits hoping it would become a series. No such luck, but my guess is it was just too much work for too little reward. But you should know that a HN reader still remembers your work fondly after 16 years.

Re: The English Paradox: Four decades of life and language in Japan

#39

Post by 082349872349872 »

cen4 wrote: post #33
minebreaker wrote: post #20

A few random thoughts from a Japanese programmer: (warning: not gonna be fun read) * As far as I can tell, most Japanese programmers can read at least some portion of English software documentations * English in Japan is always about the U.S. Not the U.K, not South Africa, not Singapore. I still remember my English teacher in the university, who was from South Africa, complained about that he was always assumed to be…

What do you feel about the LDP loosing? Step in the right direction?

I've been assuming the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Course is part of what gave Japan the heavy rural electoral weighting that's powered the LDP during nearly the entire postwar period. What do you all think?

Re: The English Paradox: Four decades of life and language in Japan

#40

Post by imp0cat »

minebreaker wrote: post #20

A few random thoughts from a Japanese programmer: (warning: not gonna be fun read) * As far as I can tell, most Japanese programmers can read at least some portion of English software documentations * English in Japan is always about the U.S. Not the U.K, not South Africa, not Singapore. I still remember my English teacher in the university, who was from South Africa, complained about that he was always assumed to be…

     Seriously, "you can teach tourists how to get to the station" as a motivation to learn the language is insane.
:) Ok that is kinda funny, but having experienced Japan as a tourist, I must say that it has made the trip much easier.

    I genuinely believe learning English have improved my life.
Absolutely.
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