It’s a national security issue and an important geopolitical issue. I doubt leaders in nvidia had no idea about this given the scale of the reselling business. Investigations, fines, and jail time for those involved please.
Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions
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Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions
#32We will see what happens - but given nvidias growth and how heavy they are now weighted I’m skeptical there will be any enforcement until well after the elections. Neither party wants to look “bad for the economy”, even if the people harmed isn’t of significant size.
You mean the election that happens in less than 12 hours? Yes, enforcement will probably happen after that.
Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions
#33Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…
There exists a third possibility where the US and China sign an under the table deal for China to invade, the US to saber rattle and China to allow the flow of chips to continue. The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind.
Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions
#34I am not sure I buy this argument that Nvidia management was complicit, but it does need investigation.
Are the laws written such that companies as large as Nvidia have zero accountability over the destination of their products that may violate laws?
They don't need to track down every unit, but 20% of revenue ending up at a Singapore address might warrant some understanding of the end destination?
Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions
#35Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…
> there's less incentive for China to control Taiwan.
a very minor effect imho. china doesn't want to control taiwan due to any economic reasons. It's ideological.
China doesn't want the model of a free, democratic society of chinese people to exist, because it proves that the CCP's authoritarianism isn't the only "good" model.
Look at how hong kong was cracked down; china took the opportunity to do it, when the economic bounties from hong kong was being usurped by shenzen (and to a degree, shanghai).
Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions
#36We will see what happens - but given nvidias growth and how heavy they are now weighted I’m skeptical there will be any enforcement until well after the elections. Neither party wants to look “bad for the economy”, even if the people harmed isn’t of significant size.
>> Neither party wants to look “bad for the economy
You mean like the horrific jobs numbers that came out that nobody is covering either? Like bad like that??
Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions
#37Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…
> there's less incentive for China to control Taiwan. a very minor effect imho. china doesn't want to control taiwan due to any economic reasons. It's ideological. China doesn't want the model of a free, democratic society of chinese people to exist, because it proves that the CCP's authoritarianism isn't the only "good" model. Look at how hong kong was cracked down; china took the opportunity to do it, when the econ…
But Chinese citizens know the US exists? This feels like projection. The US wants to act as if stock markets and political yard signs are the only usable system.
Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This is a national security issue for the USA I'm skeptical. If it was actually a national security issue those GPUs would not be allowed to be sold to civilians. You can't have something that is easily portable and readily available to and tradable between civilians in the US and realistically expect it not to get out.
It's not that a single GPU is a national security issue (although the law treats it like such). It's that selling MILLIONS of GPUs is a national security issue. Enforcing the first is a fool's errand, but the second one is much more doable.
Even if they can limit exports to only a handful of GPUs is that sufficient?
My understanding is that what those countries want them for is AI training. Once a model is trained using the model can be done on much less powerful hardware.
So instead of trying to set up sham companies that they indirectly control to buy and sneak GPUs out of the county, how about setting up a sham startup in the US that they indirectly control in some field that needs AI, have it buy a ton of GPUs, and then have it use some of those resources to run training jobs for them?
Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions
#39Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…
There exists a third possibility where the US and China sign an under the table deal for China to invade, the US to saber rattle and China to allow the flow of chips to continue. The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind.
> The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind.
This idea that the US is protecting Taiwan for its semiconductor prowess (aka the "silicon shield") is a very confusing idea to me as it ignores the period from the 40's to the 90's when Taiwan had no semiconductor manufacturing that wasn't being done as well or better elsewhere, yet the US was a ardent supporter, to the point of almost entirely shunning the People's Republic of China over it.
It's a smart sounding idea (especially if you don't know your 20th century Chinese history) but the facts just don't back it up.
Re: Nvidia and its partners built a system to bypass U.S. export restrictions
#40Nvidia is obviously a US company, but the chips themselves are manufactured in Taiwan. And of course China sees Taiwan as a rogue province, at at least treats invasion there as "on the table". While the US may decide to actively support Taiwan, at the very least a war over that will disrupt production. Should Taiwan fall, and China choose to ban exports from there to the US, then the fun and games would really start.…
There exists a third possibility where the US and China sign an under the table deal for China to invade, the US to saber rattle and China to allow the flow of chips to continue. The present direction seems to be the US is "de-risking" from Taiwan by moving chip production to the US, so if China does invade they aren't caught in a bind.
Pretty sure TSMC has plans to destroy or disable their fabs in this event. They (or the Taiwanese) would be stupid not to.