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CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson

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Re: CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson

#31

Post by kamagmar »

pessimist wrote: post #10

What stood out to me from watching the presentation was the incredible integrity of the physicists involved. The CMS group had 2 sets of data with > 5 sigma significance, but chose to also show weaker data that actually reduced the significance slightly. Consider the enormous effort spent to show that the result was not some background fluke - two separate detectors, running 2 completely different means of detection,…

> the first fundamental particle observed since the quarks in the 1980's

A minor correction -- the tau neutrino wasn't discovered until 2000.

Re: CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson

#32

Post by jlarocco »

pessimist wrote: post #16
molmalo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, chose to also show weaker data that actually reduced the significance slightly Well, they are not trying to convince anyone here. They are trying to prove something. So, choosing to hide that data would've been dumb, as the two possible outcomes would have equally interesting I think: proving that the Higgs Boson does exists, or proving that it doesn't. Beyond that, yeah, it's a good day today for science :) !!…

> Well, they are not trying to convince anyone here. They are trying to prove something. A nobel prize is at stake! If ATLAS only had the results and not CMS, they would have lost the nobel. For them to put aside personal glory for science is impressive.

It's unlikely they would get the prize if their results weren't verified.

Re: CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson

#34

Post by Create »

just for the record and to please the prospective downvoting mob, here are my experimental observations consistent with the cern experimental domain in order to warn any non-westerners:

"The cost [...] has been evaluated, taking into account realistic labor prices in different countries. The total cost is X (with a western equivalent value of Y) [where Y>X]

source: LHCb calorimeters : Technical Design Report

ISBN: 9290831693 http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/494264

about integrity:

http://cdsweb.cern.ch/record/1127343?ln=en

FYI: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Spin_(public_...

Re: CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson

#35

Post by ygmelnikova »

sdiwakar wrote: post #2

Amazing, I wonder what this means for creationists and more importantly - our understanding of our universe?

The anti-creationists have become a religion unto themselves, complete with persecutions and indulgences.

"I'm about fifty-fifty on believing in God" - Steve Jobs

Re: CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson

#36

Post by mike_ivanov »

molmalo wrote: post #14
sdiwakar wrote: post #2

Amazing, I wonder what this means for creationists and more importantly - our understanding of our universe?

In high school I had a fellow student that was ortodox. So, he believed that the Bible should be taken as a literal story. So, when I asked him if he believed in Dinosaurs, he said that some fossils were from before the Great Flood, and that those animals where the beasts that died a few thousand years ago. When I asked him about Carbon-14, and that those fossils were dated millions of years ago, his answer was simpl…

> ortodox

Did you mean fundamentalist? Orthodox is something totally different.

Re: CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson

#37

Post by amackera »

mrpollo wrote: post #33

Can someone please explain to me what would the immediate technological advancement be if this is true?, what applications would this have? (Already watched the video and read the FAQ, still a lot that is not clear to me)

This has been covered a lot, but in short: this is basic science that will have far-reaching implications in the long term. It gives us a greater understanding of the universe, and confirms a hypothesis that heretofore had no direct evidence.

The immediate short term won't see any technological advancement, but as with all basic science we will see outcomes in the future.

Science is in fact not engineering.

Re: CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson

#38

Post by jabr »

adestefan wrote: post #27
archangel_one wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should it mean anything special for creationists? I guess maybe this is a misconception based on the media having come up with the stupid label of "the God particle"?

Leon Lederman, an experimental physicist, was the one who first used the term god particle as the title for his book. There are many things to vilify the science media for, but this is not one of them.

He wanted to name the book "The Goddamn Particle" initially -- as a reference to its elusiveness -- but the publisher wore him down.

Re: CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson

#39

Post by mrpollo »

amackera wrote: post #37
mrpollo wrote: post #33

Can someone please explain to me what would the immediate technological advancement be if this is true?, what applications would this have? (Already watched the video and read the FAQ, still a lot that is not clear to me)

This has been covered a lot, but in short: this is basic science that will have far-reaching implications in the long term. It gives us a greater understanding of the universe, and confirms a hypothesis that heretofore had no direct evidence. The immediate short term won't see any technological advancement, but as with all basic science we will see outcomes in the future. Science is in fact not engineering.

Thanks for your response, I understand science is not engineering I was just not sure if I was missing some other immediate implications. The more you know.

Re: CERN experiments observe particle consistent with long-sought Higgs boson

#40

Post by molmalo »

wpietri wrote: post #24
molmalo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, chose to also show weaker data that actually reduced the significance slightly Well, they are not trying to convince anyone here. They are trying to prove something. So, choosing to hide that data would've been dumb, as the two possible outcomes would have equally interesting I think: proving that the Higgs Boson does exists, or proving that it doesn't. Beyond that, yeah, it's a good day today for science :) !!…

> Well, they are not trying to convince anyone here. They are trying to prove something. And that's the impressive part. Finding this out cost circa $10 billion. To get that dough, they had to convince a lot of politicians (and hundreds of millions of taxpayers) that this was worth it. To the general public, a clear result is much more satisfying than, "Well, gosh, the data is ambiguous; we need another $10 billion t…

They had to convince those politicians that this is worth studying. Not to convince them about the results, that could have been any of the two possible shakespearean outcomes: to exist or not to exist...
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