Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent • Hacker News Board

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#31

Post by devmor » Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 6:41 PM UTC

riskable wrote: post #18

I'm torn on this one: Should law enforcement need a warrant to search your property? Certainly. Seems obvious, right? Except this is a "conservation officer" who has been granted certain rights (by the state of PA) to: Enter upon any land or water in the performance of their duties. See: https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?... If they couldn't move between properties along shorelines they'd ha…

You are torn on whether or not a state agent should be able to supercede constitutionally-granted inalienable rights because it may impede their duty?

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#32

Post by ckemere » Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 6:42 PM UTC

lazyeye wrote: post #14

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s almost like democracy involves coalition building and compromise, where absolute positions are anathema.

Yes the idea that the govt is the best at everything (let alone schooling...)

I think that few (no?) people oppose vouchers on the theory that private schools provide an inferior education to public schools. They oppose them because most proposals would not (a) require private schools to accept the voucher as full tuition and fees and (b) require private schools to educate everyone regardless of disability, belief, etc.

As currently posed, the voucher is a subsidy to already wealthy people who can afford to supplement the voucher with extra $$ to pay for their children’s education.

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#33

Post by linuxlizard » Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 6:44 PM UTC

crisdux wrote: post #29

crooked-v wrote: post #5

I'm badly split on Institute for Justice, the nonprofit backing this suit. On the one hand, they aggressively advocate for obvious constitutional rights cases like this one and have put a lot of effort into fighting legally-accepted-yet-fundamentally-nonsensical practices like civil forfeiture. On the other, they also aggressively support school vouchers, which are mostly a scheme to drain money from public schools i…

In communities near me, recent expansions of school vouchers has been a game changer. Public schools are struggling and private schools give students a much better education. Public schools were failing well before private school vouchers existed.

Are the private schools forced to take any students? Or can they cherry pick just the best students? Do they reject anyone that needs an IEP? Public schools are legally obligated to provide an education to anyone, no matter how much trouble they cause. If these private schools take public coin, they should be required to follow the same laws.

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#34

Post by giancarlostoro » Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 6:44 PM UTC

svieira wrote: post #8

> Beyond his main vocation as a chimney business owner, Thomas often drove for Lyft and Uber. After the criminal citation was filed, he automatically lost both driving jobs—banned by both companies due to the legal violation. For being found guilty (overturned on appeal) of fishing with more than 8 lines due to what is likely a vendetta on the part of the officer. A particularly succinct example of automated cruelty.…

Here I was wondering why Florida's adding that (Fishing and Hunting as right) as a constitutional amendment for the state, guess that answers that.

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#35

Post by horsawlarway » Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 6:45 PM UTC

recursivedoubts wrote: post #21

riskable wrote: post #18

I'm torn on this one: Should law enforcement need a warrant to search your property? Certainly. Seems obvious, right? Except this is a "conservation officer" who has been granted certain rights (by the state of PA) to: Enter upon any land or water in the performance of their duties. See: https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?... If they couldn't move between properties along shorelines they'd ha…

The fourth amendment is more important than catching people illegally fishing.

The 4th explicitly doesn't cover "land".

> right to be secure in their homes, papers, and effects

It also explicitly lays out "unreasonable" as the qualifier. Personally... I don't think he has much of a case to challenge the state wording.

So while I strongly support the 4th amendment, I don't really agree with the guy here. It sounds a lot like he's pissed off the officer by fishing illegally.

My bigger takeaway is that Uber and Lyft are able to automatically dismiss him from a position without consequence for a completely unrelated offense. Even if I think he's completely guilty (and to be clear - I don't) I'm hard pressed to consider "wildlife & game license violation" worthy of impacting a job that involves driving other folks around.

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#36

Post by crisdux » Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 6:45 PM UTC

Suppafly wrote: post #15

crooked-v wrote: post #5

I'm badly split on Institute for Justice, the nonprofit backing this suit. On the one hand, they aggressively advocate for obvious constitutional rights cases like this one and have put a lot of effort into fighting legally-accepted-yet-fundamentally-nonsensical practices like civil forfeiture. On the other, they also aggressively support school vouchers, which are mostly a scheme to drain money from public schools i…

I'm not a fan of vouchers in general, especially if they allow public funds to go to religious institutions, but educational choice (as IJ terms it) is a tricky area. A lot of times these programs allow people to move between public schools or get additional funds for alternative programs that better suit their children's needs.

Why shouldn't finds go to religious institutions? I lived in a western country that allows public funding for religious schools, which I attended while growing up. The schools are still fulfilling a public need of educating students. Is it because they are religious?

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#37

Post by garyfirestorm » Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 6:46 PM UTC

devmor wrote: post #31

riskable wrote: post #18

I'm torn on this one: Should law enforcement need a warrant to search your property? Certainly. Seems obvious, right? Except this is a "conservation officer" who has been granted certain rights (by the state of PA) to: Enter upon any land or water in the performance of their duties. See: https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?... If they couldn't move between properties along shorelines they'd ha…

You are torn on whether or not a state agent should be able to supercede constitutionally-granted inalienable rights because it may impede their duty?

4th amendment rights ok whatever… but what about my ability to perform the duties written in my employee handbook?

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#38

Post by 0xEF » Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 6:47 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #4

> Stephanie heard someone loudly knocking on the front door of the cottage. The individual then went around the side of the house, past no-trespassing signs, entered the back yard, walked onto the back porch, and began “pounding” on the back door. As someone who grew up in rural PA, this is a pretty straightforward way to get shot as a trespasser.

Former Detroiter, here. That's a good way to get shot in an urban environment, too. Finally, something the two residential categories have in common!

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#39

Post by monero-xmr » Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 6:49 PM UTC

Suppafly wrote: post #15

crooked-v wrote: post #5

I'm badly split on Institute for Justice, the nonprofit backing this suit. On the one hand, they aggressively advocate for obvious constitutional rights cases like this one and have put a lot of effort into fighting legally-accepted-yet-fundamentally-nonsensical practices like civil forfeiture. On the other, they also aggressively support school vouchers, which are mostly a scheme to drain money from public schools i…

I'm not a fan of vouchers in general, especially if they allow public funds to go to religious institutions, but educational choice (as IJ terms it) is a tricky area. A lot of times these programs allow people to move between public schools or get additional funds for alternative programs that better suit their children's needs.

Even the head of the Chicago Teachers Union sends her kid to Catholic school, because the quality of the system she runs is appalling https://abc7chicago.com/stacy-davis-gates-private-school-ctu...

Maybe giving money so more kids can attend Catholic schools is a good thing

Re: Landowner Sues After State Searches Property Without Warrant or Consent

#40

Post by pixl97 » Wed, Oct 23, 2024, 6:49 PM UTC

lazyeye wrote: post #14

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s almost like democracy involves coalition building and compromise, where absolute positions are anathema.

Yes the idea that the govt is the best at everything (let alone schooling...)

Once you grow up around a bunch of home schooled kids that only learned a bit of the Bible you begin to realize that having a wide ranging education across a bunch of topics is important to create people that aren't total gibbering idiots.