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Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

subvert.fm

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Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#31

Post by freedomben »

pdntspa wrote: post #22
freedomben wrote: post #20

I think this is great, but I do hope thought is being put into solving the hardest problem of all IMHO: Music Discovery I have bought a lot on Bandcamp, but would have bought 10x more if I could just find stuff I liked. The existing system makes discovery nearly impossible unless you happen to like the stuff being mainly bought and curated or are in a lucky genre. Discoverability is especially hard because 99% of the…

That's very simple... a) Find good DJs playing music you like (YouTube is very helpful here, as is partying) b) Listen to their sets c) Shazam (or just trainspot) the tracks you like. (Shazam has a really nice integration with SPotify that dumps everything it IDs into a Spotify playlist) I am a DJ and constantly on the hunt for new music, this is how I find most of it. No algorithms necessary!

Sorry for what's probably a stupid question, but how do you find DJs on Youtube? Do you literally just search for stuff like "Hard Rock DJ" and then start clicking through results?

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#32

Post by freedomben »

mg wrote: post #26
freedomben wrote: post #20

I think this is great, but I do hope thought is being put into solving the hardest problem of all IMHO: Music Discovery I have bought a lot on Bandcamp, but would have bought 10x more if I could just find stuff I liked. The existing system makes discovery nearly impossible unless you happen to like the stuff being mainly bought and curated or are in a lucky genre. Discoverability is especially hard because 99% of the…

I run a self-learning music discovery engine called Gnoosic: https://www.gnoosic.com I can confirm that when you suggest a random band to a random user, they will dislike it with over 90% probability. I'd be interested to hear how well Gnoosic works for your musical taste.

Neat, thank you! I'll definitely give it a shot and see how it goes.

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#33

Post by bee_rider »

pdntspa wrote: post #24
bee_rider wrote: post #13

A successor to bandcamp would be really nice. I think it is hard to determine if a site will become one, because it is largely about network effect—Bandcamp had enough users (customers and artists) that it was, like, worthwhile to give them your credit card info… Totally tangential and probably revealing that I have absolutely no understanding of the music creation ecosystem and process, but is there room for, like,…

The "Unity Asset Store" is effectively Splice But the licensing doesn't do pay outs, with sampling you pay once and its yours to use as you see fit. As it should be, we don't need anyone else sticking their hands out.

In general, imo, if somebody contributes usefully to a project they should get paid in line with their contribution.

The flat rate makes sense from an era when tracking that sort of stuff was difficult, but I dunno, it seems like it ought to be possible to track this sort of stuff automatically nowadays.

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#34

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

fwip wrote: post #29
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FAQ has: > Is this a crypto thing? >> No. I realize that crypto is a bad word for some people, but I think that the above answer has a corollary: > Does it have a single point of control that will attract corruption if enough of us start using it? >> Yes Certainly plenty of poorly designed crypto things also have that point of control, but a well designed crypto thing at least has a shot at resilience.

I think the failure rate for crypto organizations is much higher than the average org.

Certainly, but when the average org becomes corrupted, you just stop buying its project and let it die. This thing endeavors not to sell you a product, but to sell your product. If it's going to get buy-in from artists, I think it's going to need to make significant promises about not making them regret it. I'd love to see it succeed, but building enough social capital to back long term promises like that is a difficult thing.

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#35

Post by l72 »

freedomben wrote: post #20

I think this is great, but I do hope thought is being put into solving the hardest problem of all IMHO: Music Discovery I have bought a lot on Bandcamp, but would have bought 10x more if I could just find stuff I liked. The existing system makes discovery nearly impossible unless you happen to like the stuff being mainly bought and curated or are in a lucky genre. Discoverability is especially hard because 99% of the…

Discoverability of anything outside of the main stream is always difficult.

I listen to a sub-sub-genre of an already niche sub-genre (raw black metal) where it takes A LOT of work to pick out the small amount of good from the large amount of bad. Many of these bands are NOT on any major platforms except for bandcamp.

There are a few review blogs that highlight some of the top stuff (although, most of the reviews are at the black metal level, not the sub-sub-genre), but I find my main source of discovery is bandcamp.

What I do is: 1) Follow LABELS on bandcamp that specialize solely in the music from bands I like, 2) follow other users that have a similar purchase history, 3) and of course follow your favorite bands for updates.

My biggest issue with bandcamp is that I find their notification system and wishlist to be quite lacking.

For notifications and discoverability, I take all the notification emails I get, filter them based on type (new release, new items [gear,stickers,vinyl], and general message updates) and move them into my RSS system (FreshRSS)[0]. I get new music updates every day of things I probably want to at least check out.

For wishlist management, I wrote a simple desktop app[1] that lets me rate, tag, comment, and listen to my albums from my bandcamp wishlist quickly. Anything I _might_ be interested in, I put in my wishlist, then use my app to keep track of if I like it or not. Stuff I don't like stays in my wishlist, but gets a low rating and filters to the bottom while stuff I want to purchase filters up to the top.

Don't get me wrong, you are still going to need to spend time exploring, as you aren't getting your weekly curated playlists.

   [0] https://blog.line72.net/2021/12/23/converting-bandcamp-email-updates-to-an-rss-feed/
   [1] https://line72.net/software/camp-counselor/

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#36

Post by n-exploit »

pragma_x wrote: post #11

The most recent blog post they have up is titled "The Mondragon of Music" which, frankly, is all I needed to see. https://subvert.fm/blog/our-50-year-roadmap-the-mondragon-of... The article mentions the highlights, but a deeper drive into the Mondragon Corp can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

Mondragon is a great model demonstrating the greater possibilities within complementary-industry cooperative economy. Mondragon is partnership between and across industries.

I could see the regional distribution of industry across/within geography, as applied within Mondragon, mapping well to genre distribution across/within industry production tooling/technologies for Subvert.

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#37

Post by rsolva »

mg wrote: post #26
freedomben wrote: post #20

I think this is great, but I do hope thought is being put into solving the hardest problem of all IMHO: Music Discovery I have bought a lot on Bandcamp, but would have bought 10x more if I could just find stuff I liked. The existing system makes discovery nearly impossible unless you happen to like the stuff being mainly bought and curated or are in a lucky genre. Discoverability is especially hard because 99% of the…

I run a self-learning music discovery engine called Gnoosic: https://www.gnoosic.com I can confirm that when you suggest a random band to a random user, they will dislike it with over 90% probability. I'd be interested to hear how well Gnoosic works for your musical taste.

Wow. Simple user interface, fas and it gives interesting results! It did not find two of my favorite groups, gusgus and subgud, but I added a suggestion. Bookmarking this for later use!

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#38

Post by theamk »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #28
mmooss wrote: post #12

It's a great start. Co-ops and non-profits can also be subverted and taken over. I hope you look ahead and plan very carefully. For example, according to an (unverified) story someone told me, a vendor to US east coast food cooperatives now controls many of them; they get their person in, pass bylaws empowering them and disempowering the board (the board usually lacking sophistication), and have deeper pockets for an…

The FAQ has: > Is this a crypto thing? >> No. I realize that crypto is a bad word for some people, but I think that the above answer has a corollary: > Does it have a single point of control that will attract corruption if enough of us start using it? >> Yes Certainly plenty of poorly designed crypto things also have that point of control, but a well designed crypto thing at least has a shot at resilience.

Smart contracts only affects on-chain stuff, and this deals with real-world things. No smart contract is going to help you if webmasters update website, or if a board decides to add a rule.

See also: NFT delisting.

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#39

Post by hedora »

freedomben wrote: post #20

I think this is great, but I do hope thought is being put into solving the hardest problem of all IMHO: Music Discovery I have bought a lot on Bandcamp, but would have bought 10x more if I could just find stuff I liked. The existing system makes discovery nearly impossible unless you happen to like the stuff being mainly bought and curated or are in a lucky genre. Discoverability is especially hard because 99% of the…

I wonder if they'd be better off creating a collectively-owned record label. Small independent labels do still exist, and I can imagine them leveraging the discovery mechanisms built into streaming platforms, etc., and also having a store front for merchandise / physical media (which would be great for co-promoting the bands in the co-op).

Re: Subvert – Collectively owned music marketplace

#40

Post by fallingsquirrel »

freedomben wrote: post #20

I think this is great, but I do hope thought is being put into solving the hardest problem of all IMHO: Music Discovery I have bought a lot on Bandcamp, but would have bought 10x more if I could just find stuff I liked. The existing system makes discovery nearly impossible unless you happen to like the stuff being mainly bought and curated or are in a lucky genre. Discoverability is especially hard because 99% of the…

Both those bands go hard and I'd never heard of either. In the spirit of your last paragraph, if you have any other favorites, I'd love to hear them!
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