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US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

reuters.com

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Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#31

Post by Kirby64 »

arcanemachiner wrote: post #30
dietsche wrote: post #16

I would like more details. There are definitely situations where neither a car nor a human could respond quickly enough to a situation on the road. for example, I recently hit a deer. The dashcam shows that I had less than 100 feet from when the deer became visible due to terrain to impact while driving at 60 mph. Keeping in mind that stopping a car in 100 feet at 60 mph is impossible. Most vehicles need more than tr…

This is called "overdriving your vision", and it's so common that it boggles my mind. (This opinion might have something to do with the deer I hit when I first started driving...) Drive according to the conditions, folks.

On many roads if a deer jumps across the road at the wrong time there’s literally nothing you can do. You can’t always drive at 30mph on back country roads just because a deer might hop out at you.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#32

Post by Zigurd »

MadnessASAP wrote: post #17
daghamm wrote: post #13

While at it, please also investigate why it is sometimes impossible to leave a damaged vehicle. This has resulted in people dying more than once: https://apnews.com/article/car-crash-tesla-france-fire-be8ec...

The why is pretty well understood, no investigation needed. I don't like the design but it's because the doors are electronic and people don't know where the manual release is. In a panic people go on muscle memory, which is push the useless button. They don't remember to pull the unmarked unobtrusive handle that they may not even know exists. If it was up to me, sure have your electronic release, but make the manual…

The inside trunk release on most cars has a glow-in-the-dark fluorescent color handle

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#33

Post by freejazz »

dietsche wrote: post #16

I would like more details. There are definitely situations where neither a car nor a human could respond quickly enough to a situation on the road. for example, I recently hit a deer. The dashcam shows that I had less than 100 feet from when the deer became visible due to terrain to impact while driving at 60 mph. Keeping in mind that stopping a car in 100 feet at 60 mph is impossible. Most vehicles need more than tr…

The article explains the investigation is based upon visibility issues... what is your point? I don't think any reasonable person doubts there are circumstances where nothing could adequately respond in order to prevent a crash. It seems a rather odd assumption to reach that these crashes would be in one of those scenarios such that we should be explained to otherwise, no less so when the report facially explains this to not be the case.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#34

Post by enslavedrobot »

diggernet wrote: post #24
enslavedrobot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are Autopilot videos this discussion is about FSD. FSD has driven ~2 billion miles at this point and had potentially 2 fatal accidents. The US average is 1.33 deaths/100 million miles. Tesla on FSD is easily 10x safer. Every day it gets safer.

How many miles does it have on the latest software? Because any miles driven on previous software are no longer relevant. Especially with that big change in v12.

The miles driven are rising exponentially as the versions improve according to company filings. If the miles driven on previous versions are no longer relevant how can the NHTSA investigation of previous versions impact FSD regulation today?

Given that the performance has improved dramatically over the last 6 months, it is very reasonable to assume that the miles driven to fatality ratio also improving.

Using the value of 1.33 deaths per 100 million miles driven vs 2 deaths in 2 billion miles driven, FSD has saved approximately 24 lives so far.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#35

Post by Zigurd »

arcanemachiner wrote: post #30
dietsche wrote: post #16

I would like more details. There are definitely situations where neither a car nor a human could respond quickly enough to a situation on the road. for example, I recently hit a deer. The dashcam shows that I had less than 100 feet from when the deer became visible due to terrain to impact while driving at 60 mph. Keeping in mind that stopping a car in 100 feet at 60 mph is impossible. Most vehicles need more than tr…

This is called "overdriving your vision", and it's so common that it boggles my mind. (This opinion might have something to do with the deer I hit when I first started driving...) Drive according to the conditions, folks.

We will inevitably see "AVs are too cautious! Let me go faster!" complaints as AVs drive in more places. But, really humans just suck at risk assessment. And at driving. Driving like a human is comforting in some contexts, but that should not be a goal when it trades away too much safety.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#36

Post by ivewonyoung »

aanet wrote: post #15

About damn time NHTSA opened this full scale investigation. Tesla's "autonowashing" has gone on for far too long. Per Reuters [1] "The probe covers 2016-2024 Model S and X vehicles with the optional system as well as 2017-2024 Model 3, 2020-2024 Model Y, and 2023-2024 Cybertruck vehicles. The preliminary evaluation is the first step before the agency could seek to demand a recall of the vehicles if it believes they p…

> Roughly 2.4 million Teslas in question, with "Full Self Driving" software after 4 reported collisions and one fatality.

45000 people die yearly just in the US in auto accidents. Those numbers and timeline you quoted seem insignificant at first glance magnified by people with an axe to grind like that guy running anti Tesla superbowl ads, who makes self driving software like you.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#37

Post by peutetre »

whamlastxmas wrote: post #25
peutetre wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is Tesla and Musk have been lying about full self-driving for years. They have made specific claims of full autonomy with specific timelines and it's been a lie every time: https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/ In 2016 a video purporting to show full self-driving with the driver there purely "for legal reasons" was staged and faked: https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-video-promoting-sel... In 2016 Tesla sai…

Most of this is extreme hyperbole and it’s really hard to believe this is a genuine good faith attempt at conversation instead of weird astroturfing, bc these tired inaccurate talking points are what come up in literally every single even remotely associated to Elon. It’s like there’s a dossier of talking points everyone is sharing The car drives itself. This is literally undeniable. You can test it today for free. Y…

> bc these tired inaccurate talking points are what come up in literally every single even remotely associated to Elon

You understand that the false claims, the inaccuracies, and the lies come from Elon, right? They're associated with him because he is the source of them.

They're only tired because he's been telling the same lie year after year.

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#38

Post by [deleted] »

wnevets wrote: post #22
smt88 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If no one from Boeing is going to jail, Musk certainly isn't either (at least not for anything related to vehicle unsafety).

> (at least not for anything related to vehicle unsafety). is that also true if the investigation determines elon saying tesla's having full self-driving capabilities is fraud?

[deleted]

Re: US probes Tesla's Full Self-Driving software after fatal crash

#39

Post by ivewonyoung »

> NHTSA said it was opening the inquiry after four reports of crashes where FSD was engaged during reduced roadway visibility like sun glare, fog, or airborne dust. A pedestrian was killed in Rimrock, Arizona, in November 2023 after being struck by a 2021 Tesla Model Y, NHTSA said. Another crash under investigation involved a reported injury

> The probe covers 2016-2024 Model S and X vehicles with the optional system as well as 2017-2024 Model 3, 2020-2024 Model Y, and 2023-2024 Cybertruck vehicles.

This is good, but also for context 45 thousand people are killed in auto accidents in just the US every year, making 4 report crashes and 1 reported fatality for 2.4 million vehicles over 8 years look miniscule by comparison, or even better than many human drivers.

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