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Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

cosmowenman.substack.com

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Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understandable perhaps, "good" enough to completely ignore copyright law, no.

What copyright law? If I possess an out-of-copyright document, nothing requires me to make a copy for you when you ask me. They're ignoring the French freedom-of-information law; copyright law doesn't even touch the issue.

My point, perhaps badly made, was that copyright law has expired, therefore it should be in the public domain.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#32
Data *should* be free, but in an age where predatory corps crawl the web to train models they hide behind paywalls, having control over your data means being able to explicitly give them to those that serve the common good.

I used to be sympathetic to causes such as this, but in the advent of the plunder of our digital cultural heritage I have become skeptical.

Why should proprietary AI get data payed for by the french tax payer?

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#33
post #7

> in private, RMN admits it won’t release its scans because it wants to protect its gift shops’ sales revenue from competition from the public making their own replicas. Sounds like a pretty good reason

Except it turns out they also make basically no money from this right now - it's not a meaningful portion of their funding or other monetary support.

This is actually true of most large art museums. SF MoMa makes only 7% of revenue (not actual dollars in funding) from their gift shop and that number only goes in one direction over the years.

Smaller art museums often depend more but that is also changing.

So It's just another nonsense argument

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#34

> The court ruled that the museum’s revenue, business model, and supposed threats from competition and counterfeiting are irrelevant to the public’s right to access its scans, a dramatic rejection of the museum’s position It would have helped the museum and government ministry if this had been clear before the government-funded scanning program was started. (Maybe it was, I don't know.) I was initially sympathetic to…

This the law of unintended consequences in action. I suspect that neither the government nor museums thought there was any legal obligations to make 3D scans public and I'd wager that the legislator did not have that in mind when they drafted the freedom of information laws.

But then, suddenly (as per linked article): "The Commission on Access to Administrative Documents (CADA) ... had never before considered any dispute about 3D scans. It affirmed my request that musée Rodin communicate copies of its scans to me, determining for the first time that public agencies’ 3D scans are in fact administrative documents and by law must be made available to the public."

A decision which has been going up the chain of courts since and is apparently close to the possibly dramatic climax.

Indeed, the commercial argument is therefore irrelevant to this and the museum was clutching at straws there, really...

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#35

Data *should* be free, but in an age where predatory corps crawl the web to train models they hide behind paywalls, having control over your data means being able to explicitly give them to those that serve the common good. I used to be sympathetic to causes such as this, but in the advent of the plunder of our digital cultural heritage I have become skeptical. Why should proprietary AI get data payed for by the fren…

States do a lot of things with taxes that benefit commercial interests. Why should this data be an exception?

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#36
post #25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Has anyone used these in games? No doubt someone has put some of them into games. However, most likely not in it's original shape/form, as the scans usually produce highly inefficiently (but high resolution, great for renders) meshes. The meshes from scans tend to be a mess, and when inserting a 3D model for games, you care a lot about how optimized the meshes are, and that the mesh has a low polygon count as other…

so it wouldn't be easy because these scans are highly detailed and so would require too many polygons to be loaded at once would this remain true for modern higher end graphics cards?

Even modern high end graphics cards use abstractions of the base data to create vast amounts of the final output's fine detail. For example tessellation and other techniques used for complex geometry like compound curves, which allow millions or billions of polygons can be visually simulated without needing to be present as polygon data, increasing opportunity for processing parallelization, while reducing load on communication busses and VRAM.

As an example, you could probably represent something like the grip of this FLIR camera in a couple hundred polygons and surface/curve definitions to help the rendering engine tesselate correctly. On the other hand, this overall scan is 357000 vertexes. Sure you can simplify it and bake a bunch of the texture into a normal map, but that then requires manually reworking the texture map and various other postprocessing steps to avoid creating a glitchy mess.

https://i.imgur.com/aAwoiXU.png

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#37

> The court ruled that the museum’s revenue, business model, and supposed threats from competition and counterfeiting are irrelevant to the public’s right to access its scans, a dramatic rejection of the museum’s position It would have helped the museum and government ministry if this had been clear before the government-funded scanning program was started. (Maybe it was, I don't know.) I was initially sympathetic to…

I very quickly had no sympathy at all with the museum. It obtained funding to do the scans with the express purpose of providing to the public, and then decided not to.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#38

"In response to the museum’s nonsensical technological claims, we submitted expert testimony from Professor Michael Kazhdan, full professor of computer graphics in the department of computer science at Johns Hopkins University and co-developer of the Poisson Surface Reconstruction algorithm, which is used worldwide in 3D scan data analysis. Professor Kazhdan explained to the court that documents in plaintext format a…

Reminds me of Woody Allen’s Annie Hall scene „If Life Were Only Like This“:

https://youtu.be/vTSmbMm7MDg

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#39
post #38

"In response to the museum’s nonsensical technological claims, we submitted expert testimony from Professor Michael Kazhdan, full professor of computer graphics in the department of computer science at Johns Hopkins University and co-developer of the Poisson Surface Reconstruction algorithm, which is used worldwide in 3D scan data analysis. Professor Kazhdan explained to the court that documents in plaintext format a…

Reminds me of Woody Allen’s Annie Hall scene „If Life Were Only Like This“: https://youtu.be/vTSmbMm7MDg

It's pretty much that!

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#40

"In response to the museum’s nonsensical technological claims, we submitted expert testimony from Professor Michael Kazhdan, full professor of computer graphics in the department of computer science at Johns Hopkins University and co-developer of the Poisson Surface Reconstruction algorithm, which is used worldwide in 3D scan data analysis. Professor Kazhdan explained to the court that documents in plaintext format a…

"Well, that's funny, because I happen to have Mr. McLuhan right here...
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