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Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

nobelprize.org

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Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#31

Post by renewiltord »

whimsicalism wrote: post #19
EugeneG wrote: post #2

Which is why the pro-Trump tech folks are playing with fire. Exchanging potentially faster approvals/lower regulation for favored projects, for an environment where rule of law and institutions are weakened.

More rules doesn’t mean stronger rule of law. Having lots of weakly enforced or discretionary laws is net worse for rule of law and a stable non-corrupt society.

More law, better regulation comes from the same school as more code, better product. It’s obviously bullshit but novice practitioners and non-practitioners support the idea because they think all problems are solvable with more something.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#32

Post by MichaelZuo »

vlovich123 wrote: post #28
MichaelZuo wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it makes sense to discuss it relative to the ‘political and ruling class’? Since they pretty much all have party cards already. And the moment they give it up means they’re kicked out from any decision making, from what I understand. Yes internal factions within the party can arbitrarily punish each other for made up reasons all day long, every day of the year. So in a sense it was already authoritarian without…

The kind of punishment authoritarian regimes dish out is much more severe in ways that you couldn’t do in the US (imprisonment, seizure of assets, death). In fact I’d argue it’s the only kind that matters. Authoritarian regimes rarely go after normal people unless they speak out actively against the government (which China does) and instead focus on controlling and censoring anyone in a position of power and let the…

If the party membership is revoked first, then the person wouldn’t be part of the ‘political and ruling class’ any longer.

Then they would just be a citizen who might formerly have been some bigshot, i.e. the second case.

It still doesn’t seem to make sense to discuss any increases relative to the first case, since in 2012 it was already unlimitedly authoritarian.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#33

Post by inglor_cz »

doodlebugging wrote: post #13

Seems like one conclusion that can be drawn is that the indigenous people who get colonized should just shut up and enjoy their new reservations. The political, societal, and economic benefits of colonization were not intended to help them. Those changes were only to help those who did the colonizing build a new society that was free from the institutions that prevented them having a voice in how they were able to co…

In most settler-colonial situations during history, unless strict separation between races and nations was maintained, the conquerors intermingled with the conquered so thoroughly that you cannot tell them apart nowadays (Who is a Norman and who is an Anglo-Saxon? Who is a Roman and who is a Celt?). That included a lot of Amerindians in the US.

This is pretty much the norm across the ages. You could probably say that it is wise from the vanquished to adapt at least partially the culture of the conquerors; after all, it might be better suited for victories in wars, and that was a major factor in survival until recently. (In some places, still is.)

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#34

Post by jhp123 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #19
EugeneG wrote: post #2

Which is why the pro-Trump tech folks are playing with fire. Exchanging potentially faster approvals/lower regulation for favored projects, for an environment where rule of law and institutions are weakened.

More rules doesn’t mean stronger rule of law. Having lots of weakly enforced or discretionary laws is net worse for rule of law and a stable non-corrupt society.

you've misread the comment, weakened rule of law and lesser regulations are two different things that (according to the comment) are being exchanged. For example firing Comey had nothing to do with regulations.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#35

Post by lokar »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #24
lokar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The slow and messy process of reaching consensus (or close) via a complex web of institutions help “western” (in the sense that Kotkin uses) societies avoid really bad policy and adapt to mistakes. Some people are frustrated by this and think it would be much better to substitute their judgment for this process. They don’t necessarily hold this view selfishly or maliciously, they are just short sighted.

Yes. Their judgment. Everyone else gets to shut up and take it. It's a very selfish view, whether or not they are consciously selfish about it.

I guess I agree. I tend to try to view others actions in best reasonable light, so I default to the idea that they are simply blind to their own limits, but mean well.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#36

Post by alephnerd »

doodlebugging wrote: post #13

Seems like one conclusion that can be drawn is that the indigenous people who get colonized should just shut up and enjoy their new reservations. The political, societal, and economic benefits of colonization were not intended to help them. Those changes were only to help those who did the colonizing build a new society that was free from the institutions that prevented them having a voice in how they were able to co…

> Seems like one conclusion that can be drawn is that the indigenous people who get colonized should just shut up and enjoy their new reservations

Colonial institutions ARE extractive.

This is a fairly prominent point in Acemoglu, Simon, and Robinson's works.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#37

Post by feedforward »

dash2 wrote: post #17
js8 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the summary from the review and I am not convinced that neoliberal US and EU have a less extractive governance structure than China has, as the authors seem to claim. It's been a decade since the book was published and China is still going strong. We will see.

China has become more and more authoritarian under Xi, its GDP growth stats may be dodgy, and recently its housing bubble has popped big-style. It could go the way of Japan. I agree with your last sentence, all the same.

People were saying when the PRC was founded 75 years ago it would collapse any day now. They were saying this during the cultural revolution. They were saying it earlier this year, as China sent a robot to the far side of the moon to collect moon rocks and bring them back to earth. And they're still saying it. I'm not holding my breath.

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#38

Post by [deleted] »

kome wrote: post #27

Terrible decision. Very bad and sloppy economics, a simplified version of what sociology and political science have been doing much better for over 40 years, as if before these crucial contributions we had no idea that institutions, forms of power and social conflict affect economic outcomes. Branko Milanovic has aptly and rather amusingly defined Acemoglu's naive theorizing as "Wikipedia entries with regressions" ht…

[deleted]

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#39

Post by AnimalMuppet »

lokar wrote: post #35
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Their judgment. Everyone else gets to shut up and take it. It's a very selfish view, whether or not they are consciously selfish about it.

I guess I agree. I tend to try to view others actions in best reasonable light, so I default to the idea that they are simply blind to their own limits, but mean well.

I guess I'd better assume the best about such people, given how easy it is for me to have the same attitude...

Re: Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel 2024

#40

Post by CyberRymden »

Eumenes wrote: post #30
cjalmeida wrote: post #5

I strongly recommend Acemoglu, Robinson classic book "Why Nations Fail" https://www.amazon.com/Why-Nations-Fail-Origins-Prosperity/d... It's very accessible, no economics background required. Along with Krugman and Kahneman, one of the few economics scholars that take the time to write a book for layman.

> Krugman Not sure I'd spend time on a Krugman book. He predicted in 1998 that the internet would cease having an economic impact by 2005 and that it would be no greater than fax machines. He's like the Neil deGrasse Tyson of economics.

Krugman is controversial at times, but he is a serious economist. The quote is also taken out of two important contexts. 1. It was not a serious academic prediction but rather part of a fluff piece by the Times about future precitions. 2. The quote also exists in the context of a debate that was raging during the advent of the internet whether or not the internet would hyper charge productivity and economic growth. In hindsight, especially after the late 1990s, the truth is far closer to the fax machine rather than a new era of prosperity. The lack of visible productivity growth from a technology that has so visibly transformed our society is one of the bigger questions in economics today.
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