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Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

medscape.com

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Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#31

Post by state_less »

> "Psychiatrists really focus on negative symptoms of depression. So, if you are not sad anymore, if your sleep or appetite is not impaired, they think you're better. But if you look at what patients define as important, they say it's the degree in which their life is meaningful, in which they can connect with people around them, in which they can function in everyday life," Barba said.

A more wholistic approach to health care would be beneficial. For folks looking for more depth or purpose, Psilocybin seems to help reconnect people with a part of themselves they only dimly remember.

I often hear people talk about the risks of psychedelics, which are to be considered, but what’s the risk of doing nothing or withholding the best treatment?

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#33

Post by chiefalchemist »

Mistletoe wrote: post #7

It’s a neat study. I don’t know how you account for the intense placebo effect of a psychedelic experience for six hours though. We know that traditional antidepressants may work through this method already where you feel “different” and fix yourself. Trials with an active placebo often have results very similar to antidepressants. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/ I guess maybe it doesn’t even ma…

This is true of most if not all drugs / studies. That is, the drug gets "credit" for the placebo effect. Sure they took the meds, but that's correlation in at least some. That is, in some the drug did not actuay work but they still get to benefit from the placebo effect.

I rarely see this discussed. I'm not sure why (short of actual cellular test showing it was the drug that did triggered the success some of the success even in the group taking the real meds is still the placebo effect).

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#34

Post by Jerrrrrrry »

dillydogg wrote: post #9

I think a major criticism of how this study is designed is that it is not truly "blinded". I doubt many of the participants were unsure if they received psilocybin vs escitalopram. That being said, there are a number of studies that suggest this is an effective treatment, so I hope this can become more available to those who need it. However, for treatment resistant depression (especially with a catatonia component),…

Having tried all the drugs, Ketamine and its cousins are very "preppy" - the idealization and ruminating seem to be more side-steppable; as if they were intrusive thoughts that were a minor annoyance.

With the after-glow lasting weeks however, it seems to facilitate/allow a period of self-reflection (using whatever else possibly as an aide) that is notably absent of self-pity.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#36

Post by infamouscow »

agumonkey wrote: post #25
neom wrote: post #21

Psilocybin saved my life. I'm no longer suicidal, I'm no longer a practicing alcoholic, and outside of a few things here and there, I'm generally at peace with my life. I cannot express how grateful I am for psilocybin.

Is it something that you still take here and there or was it a time limited therapy ? Congrats on finding a cure for your ailments

Psilocybin tolerance starts building immediately. Even if you microdose (100 mg), it will stop being effective after 3-4 days.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#37

Post by M4v3R »

neom wrote: post #21

Psilocybin saved my life. I'm no longer suicidal, I'm no longer a practicing alcoholic, and outside of a few things here and there, I'm generally at peace with my life. I cannot express how grateful I am for psilocybin.

Thanks for sharing this, you’re not the only one. I have a close friend who tried LSD as a last resort to get the best of his severe depression and suicidal thoughts (after being on SSRIs for his entire life) and just one session completely removed his suicidal thoughts for months. After this experience he repeats this whenever he feels the dark thoughts are coming back and it always curbs them down almost completely. It’s mind-blowing how well it worked for him.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#38

Post by neom »

agumonkey wrote: post #25
neom wrote: post #21

Psilocybin saved my life. I'm no longer suicidal, I'm no longer a practicing alcoholic, and outside of a few things here and there, I'm generally at peace with my life. I cannot express how grateful I am for psilocybin.

Is it something that you still take here and there or was it a time limited therapy ? Congrats on finding a cure for your ailments

I did 3 sessions of 8 grams in silent darkness for 3 weekends in a row and that basically "beat the devil out of me" as they say - it was very very difficult, and a lot of work, but well worth it.I've only felt the "brain haze" (I call it) once since then, I took a gram and went for a long walk in the forest, back to no haze. It's been about 7/8 months and I can feel the "haze" building in my mind again, so I plan to do another 1g in the forest sometime in the coming weeks.

However, my personal experience has been that Psilocybin != Psilocybin - the mushroom itself is super important to the process, much like Indica and Sativa have different ways of connecting you to the mind and the aether, Psilocybin (at least for me) VERY much is the same thing, and it's much starker than cannabis is. Getting into woo-woo land here so apologize: I have some concern that just "Psilocybin" isn't a good prescription, that the "spirit" that works on you is unique to the mushroom family, and that both not knowing the mushroom to prescribe and also being clinical about it (Psilocybin vs Mushroom) may not be a good direction to go in to help people with their issues. I also think that about LSD, it might work a bit for a while, but imo it's not the best tool.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#39

Post by keepamovin »

RobotToaster wrote: post #26
dillydogg wrote: post #9

I think a major criticism of how this study is designed is that it is not truly "blinded". I doubt many of the participants were unsure if they received psilocybin vs escitalopram. That being said, there are a number of studies that suggest this is an effective treatment, so I hope this can become more available to those who need it. However, for treatment resistant depression (especially with a catatonia component),…

How would you effectively blind a study on a drug with such obvious "side effects"? I can see such unreasonable objections being used to prevent it's approval though.

That was the "reason" the FDA nuked the MDMA approval. "Unblinded because people could tell if they were on placebo or active therefore how do we know it wasn't just placebo effect based on belief"

Seems spurious as:

- 1) how do you reliably measure "people could tell"?;

- 2) if people sensed it, likely they can sense when they are on active in a whole range of effective medicines, so seems a biased / moved-goalpost application of the "rules";

- 3) what does it matter if the strength of the drug effect is greater than the strength of the placebo? Ie, surely they can model and subtract and control, so what does it matter if the actual effect is more than placebo?

Ugh...

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#40

Post by ajb »

strken wrote: post #18
Mistletoe wrote: post #7

It’s a neat study. I don’t know how you account for the intense placebo effect of a psychedelic experience for six hours though. We know that traditional antidepressants may work through this method already where you feel “different” and fix yourself. Trials with an active placebo often have results very similar to antidepressants. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/ I guess maybe it doesn’t even ma…

For obvious reasons you probably can't put a patient under general anaesthetic before giving them either the placebo or the drug, but I wonder what would happen if you did. Does a patient have to be awake to see the antidepressant effect? How do sedation and sleep differ?

There has been a study of that on ketamine, where they used patients who needed to be put under anaesthetic for other reasons. I'll try and find it in a bit...

Edit: found it https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/does-anaesthesia-prove-keta...

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