The most frustrating part is that the last time I was able to buy a "regular" tv was 2020 EVERYTHING is a damn smart tv now
What about smart monitors?
Smart TVs are like "a digital Trojan Horse" in people's homes
31–40 of 41 posts
Re: Smart TVs are like "a digital Trojan Horse" in people's homes
#32Lets not forget that any "Smart" TV that has voice control can probably record audio in your home at any time.
https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/02/samsung_telev...
Any "Smart" TV that has a camera to see who is watching (to customize content and ads) does just that...
Re: Smart TVs are like "a digital Trojan Horse" in people's homes
#33The most frustrating part is that the last time I was able to buy a "regular" tv was 2020 EVERYTHING is a damn smart tv now
Just buy a smart tv but don't connect to wifi?
Just don't have any visitors in your house either, as they might connect it to their cell phone hot spot to watch one of their Netflix shows or similar when you're not looking.
As much as you think this scenario is paranoia, your visitors will think you not connecting your TV is just as paranoid.
Re: Smart TVs are like "a digital Trojan Horse" in people's homes
#34There isn't any way to allow certain streaming services via a firewall whitelist, but block all the extraneous connections a TV might make is there? (As the TV manufacturer might use the same CDNs/IP ranges as legitimate services?), ideally without hacking about with the TV itself. Or would it be best just to never connect the TV to a network and use a computer to access streaming services.
Yes, generally that concept is possible. I don't know of software that makes a whitelist firewall easy to use. You also run into problems when your streaming provider updates ip addresses or cdn DNS names, which can be frequent. The other issue with this is that the streaming provider that you pay might also be adversarial. You may want to allow some of their traffic but not other. So you end up maintaining some kind…
it's actually quite easy to set up for netflix for example: https://github.com/AdrianCX/pico_hole
no need to overcomplicate, your concerns are valid but we're not there yet. Above has worked fine for 2+ years as is.
Re: Smart TVs are like "a digital Trojan Horse" in people's homes
#35What they're attempting to do seems fundamentally impossible to me. Personalization requires there is a specific person tied to the output. With phones and PCs, that's a fairly reasonable assumption. With a television, it quite often isn't. Services allow you to create individual "who is watching" profiles, but the reality at least for my family is no one uses those. We all watch from the same account and same profile. We also watch together, in which case there is no answer to a question that assumes only one person can watch at a time. Sometimes, no one is watching and the stream is simply left on while everyone is sleeping or out of the house and autoplay is streaming to an empty room. Sometimes, we leave things on intentionally for the cats. My wife has ADHD and puts something on only to walk away two minutes later, but it's still on.
In some extremely dystopian future that I'm sure is coming quickly, a television may be equipped with video surveillance capability that can identify eyeballs in real time and decide exactly what animal is viewing what part of the screen and estimate from bloodflow in the face and pupil dilation the extent to which they care and are paying attention, but we're definitely not there yet.
Right now, this is still just snake oil they're selling to ad buyers. Why I get almost all fast food, beer, and insurance ads, even though I don't drink, haven't eaten fast food since 2002, and haven't changed insurance providers since 2008.
Re: Smart TVs are like "a digital Trojan Horse" in people's homes
#36The title and subject sound like they are about smart TVs, but the example problems sound like they are about streaming in general, which might be streamed from my cable box, or on my computer monitor. Are the streaming issues really limited to the smart TVs?
The linked report has a lot to say specifically about smart TVs as well as specific streaming services and platforms. Smart TVs are a major part of the problem, but far from the only thing to be concerned about.
Re: Smart TVs are like "a digital Trojan Horse" in people's homes
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just buy a smart tv but don't connect to wifi?
It literally isn't good enough anymore. Smart TVs try to phone home in many ways. Thanks to things like Amazon Sidewalk, they can jump on that network for connectivity without your knowledge if it's available nearby.
Some TVs have modular pcie devices in them. You could probably just take the off but with my guess, it would send the TV into panic mode and not boot-up without the device.
Re: Smart TVs are like "a digital Trojan Horse" in people's homes
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reasonable advice. However it's worth keeping in mind that HDMI supports Ethernet passthru so it too can be used to connect out.
Technically true but this feature never had much update and I believe hdmi ARC and this are mutually exclusive/use the same wiring path? Anyway I think the real threats will be: 1) Aggressive wifi search connecting itself, including deals with ISP routers to allow them to bypass you or even other devices. 2) Time-bombs causing the TV to become non-functional or degraded if you don't connect it to the internet, after…
Almost nothing supports HDMI Ethernet, it is the use of extra signal path on the cable to provide an ethernet link between two devices. Both devices have to support the extra signals and one of them has to be able to route, so it's basically someone's bright idea that barely has any support.
2) I've designed a system like this for a TV rental company, although legally a general retail TV manufacturer wouldn't want to do this because it causes reputational damage.
3) There's material cost for the modem and then there's a subscription cost for the connectivity. Either of which would reduce their profitability.
I spent a decade working in consumer electronics, working with all the major brands you know well, many of the white companies who make the components and the ODMs who make the boxes that will get a brand stamped on them by whoever is buying it.
Ultimately the TV business is barely profitable, most big brands sell TVs as something of a loss leader so that they can sustain their brand name. You spend each night with a Samsung, LG or Sony remote in hand looking at their product? Then they're winning in their eyes. Also because of the relatively high value of the TV it sustains their overall turnover without actually contributing to profitability. When a manufacturer launches a new TV they get about 8 months to make a profit on it, after that they're probably losing money because of downward pressure by retailers to drop the price. That's driven by consumer demand for cheaper rather than better products by the way, consumers have some responsibility for the state of the market.
The Smart apps systems cost the TV manufacturer, they have to supply the servers and infrastructure. They may make a small commission if a customer signs up to a streaming service on their device, but otherwise your general use of Smart technology costs them money every day.
Ultimately, most TV manufacturers have zero interest in spying on you. LG's biggest blunders can all be traced back to a lack of care and due diligence in their handling of data. Most of the time the 'mass data collection' is just accidental, someone in the development team thought it would be a good idea to collect data and some researcher is horrified by how much data gets sent back. Sometimes, someone gets the idea that viewing data could be used to put ads on the product, but ultimately they're not interested in what you watch, they're interested in grouping you into an advertising bucket so they can suggest you watch another movie with a Hemsworth in it.
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be oversight, and that these companies don't do stupid things for money, but ultimately there's never malice, or a desire to spy. Most of the overreach is incidental to the overall goal.
If someone doesn't want to use smart TV tech, then I'd advise them to not connect the TV to the network. There are set-top boxes out there that can do the job easily enough, and some of them might not even spy on you. One thing to remember is that many Android boxes you buy online, especially the "IPTV" ones, are riddled with malware. So don't think that by disabling Samsung and going to Kodi, you're making yourself safer.
Re: Smart TVs are like "a digital Trojan Horse" in people's homes
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Technically true but this feature never had much update and I believe hdmi ARC and this are mutually exclusive/use the same wiring path? Anyway I think the real threats will be: 1) Aggressive wifi search connecting itself, including deals with ISP routers to allow them to bypass you or even other devices. 2) Time-bombs causing the TV to become non-functional or degraded if you don't connect it to the internet, after…
Almost nothing supports HDMI Ethernet, it is the use of extra signal path on the cable to provide an ethernet link between two devices. Both devices have to support the extra signals and one of them has to be able to route, so it's basically someone's bright idea that barely has any support. 2) I've designed a system like this for a TV rental company, although legally a general retail TV manufacturer wouldn't want to…
> Ultimately, most TV manufacturers have zero interest in spying on you.
Then where did ACR come from, and why do more and more TVs ship with it nowadays?
Re: Smart TVs are like "a digital Trojan Horse" in people's homes
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just buy a smart tv but don't connect to wifi?
I'm sure this will soon be solved using the hack of accessing shared Wi-Fi fabrics that some ISPs now offer (as in, the thing where the router will offer a generic network such as CoxWiFi, and allow random people to pay to use your WiFi; even if you don't have it, maybe your neighbor does)... and even then, new IoT longer-range WiFi services can act as a backstop.
Its already happening with Amazon Sidewalk and LoRa bands.
Some of the larger ISPs are also piping cell phone communications to VOIP at the edge using built-in features in the modems, and these are hopelessly insecure by regulatory action.
Take a look at the Cypher-Con talk on cable modems. Pretty damning. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hk2DsCWGXs)