Announcing the Tech for Palestine Incubator • Hacker News Board

Re: Announcing the Tech for Palestine Incubator

#31

Post by xenospn » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 11:18 AM UTC

hmcq6 wrote: post #26

xenospn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it has. The ICC has issued arrest warrants for the heads of Hamas specifically for using sexual violence as a weapon.

An arrest warrant does not prove anything, it especially doesn't prove sexual violence was used as a weapon on Oct 7th specifically. Arrest > Trial > Jail. You can arrest someone on suspicion of a crime and then you go to trial which is ostensibly the fact finding segment of things.

Yes. The ICC is well known for issuing random arrest warrants with zero proof to back them up. Totally. (/s for those who miss it)

Re: Announcing the Tech for Palestine Incubator

#32

Post by pvg » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 11:56 AM UTC

j_maffe wrote: post #29

jazzyjackson wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really abuse for a small number of people to decide right off the bat that a discussion is going to be, erm, unproductive?

It is if the post consistently gets vouched for whenever others stumble across it. Of course if it only got flags then it likely represents a widespread opinion.

Some users flag, others vouch, that's a disagreement rather than abuse in some obvious way.

Re: Announcing the Tech for Palestine Incubator

#33

Post by j_maffe » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 12:43 PM UTC

pvg wrote: post #32

j_maffe wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is if the post consistently gets vouched for whenever others stumble across it. Of course if it only got flags then it likely represents a widespread opinion.

Some users flag, others vouch, that's a disagreement rather than abuse in some obvious way.

Yes, but again see my previous comment about the asymmetry of visibility.

Re: Announcing the Tech for Palestine Incubator

#34

Post by aguaviva » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 4:03 PM UTC

hmcq6 wrote: post #30

aguaviva wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it can, as can any other kind of well-designed Q+A bot, even about far less controversial topics. The material benefit as such resides in the fact that (1) they can potentially save users a great deal of time (a very large portion of search engine queries are straight-up questions, which the articles in the result set sometimes answer, but usually only partially, and it still requires a good chunk of time to plo…

Hard disagree on the impact this will have on (2). When Russia attempted to interfere with the 2016 election they did so overwhelmingly through social media, not by polluting google search. And “saving users time while searching” is more likely to be accomplished by improving your query->result pipeline and not by improving a tangentially associated technology

No one is suggesting that these bots will in any way influence ("pollute", per your spin) Google search. Obviously Google won't be incorporating their output, and if anything they'll actively block it the moment they get wind of it.

Also, I didn't specifically say these bots would save users time "while searching", i.e. while using a regular search engine. Though I didn't dig too deeply into the T4P proposal (so I don't know what they're proposing), my own guess is that people would seek out these bots as an alternative to general-purpose search engines -- for example as a sidebar on their favorite news sites.

Re: Announcing the Tech for Palestine Incubator

#35

Post by spookie » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 4:16 PM UTC

breakyerself wrote: post #9

coolspot wrote: post #8

They say there were no rapes on Oct 7 and other things are also made up: https://updates.techforpalestine.org/oct7factcheck-sunday-ed...

They accurately outline the fact that claim of the NYT is not properly supported by facts. There was almost certainly sexual violence on Oct 7. It hasn't been established in an evidence based way that there was organized premeditated weaponization of sexual violence as a tool of war as is claimed in the article.

I know people irl whom I trust that family members of theirs had been raped.

You can just not trust my word, I'm just someone online.

Re: Announcing the Tech for Palestine Incubator

#36

Post by kazinator » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 4:18 PM UTC

spookie wrote: post #35

breakyerself wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They accurately outline the fact that claim of the NYT is not properly supported by facts. There was almost certainly sexual violence on Oct 7. It hasn't been established in an evidence based way that there was organized premeditated weaponization of sexual violence as a tool of war as is claimed in the article.

I know people irl whom I trust that family members of theirs had been raped. You can just not trust my word, I'm just someone online.

Was it premeditated weaponization of sexual violence as a tool of war?

The comment you replying to is not denying that it happened.

What if the weaponization accusation is just an embellishment added to suit a political narrative? Establishing its truth does require evidence, separately from the evidence of the violence itself.

That's even if we happened to find the narrative morally prevailing.

Re: Announcing the Tech for Palestine Incubator

#37

Post by spookie » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 4:51 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #36

spookie wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people irl whom I trust that family members of theirs had been raped. You can just not trust my word, I'm just someone online.

Was it premeditated weaponization of sexual violence as a tool of war? The comment you replying to is not denying that it happened. What if the weaponization accusation is just an embellishment added to suit a political narrative? Establishing its truth does require evidence, separately from the evidence of the violence itself. That's even if we happened to find the narrative morally prevailing.

Yeah, OP doesn't say they didn't happen.

Regardless of their initial intentions, I find it difficult to argue that these acts haven't served as a tool of war.

One must also acknowledge these acts were not isolated. I do not have concrete proof, maybe there is some out there, but the fact of the matter is that scale and their psychological effects are undeniable.

Re: Announcing the Tech for Palestine Incubator

#38

Post by jazzyjackson » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 5:59 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #36

spookie wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people irl whom I trust that family members of theirs had been raped. You can just not trust my word, I'm just someone online.

Was it premeditated weaponization of sexual violence as a tool of war? The comment you replying to is not denying that it happened. What if the weaponization accusation is just an embellishment added to suit a political narrative? Establishing its truth does require evidence, separately from the evidence of the violence itself. That's even if we happened to find the narrative morally prevailing.

I have no idea what difference it makes if the rape was premeditated. The strategy employed by Hamas was to terrorize. You think Gaza should be invaded less harshly because her soldiers decided to rape in the heat of the moment?

Re: Announcing the Tech for Palestine Incubator

#39

Post by jazzyjackson » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 6:06 PM UTC

phantompeace wrote: post #28

xenospn wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. They’re all criminals and they should all be prosecuted.

1 side have been subjugated for over 70 years through control over their land, air and sea - the other is a nation backed by the most powerful nations in the world, filled with a lot of foreigners that lay claim to that place due to something that happened 2,000 years ago. Guess which side was deemed the baddies because they lashed out?

No sympathy for why the foreigners showed up huh.

Re: Announcing the Tech for Palestine Incubator

#40

Post by j_maffe » Sat, Oct 05, 2024, 6:12 PM UTC

jazzyjackson wrote: post #39

phantompeace wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 side have been subjugated for over 70 years through control over their land, air and sea - the other is a nation backed by the most powerful nations in the world, filled with a lot of foreigners that lay claim to that place due to something that happened 2,000 years ago. Guess which side was deemed the baddies because they lashed out?

No sympathy for why the foreigners showed up huh.

Go read how they showed up.