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What the heck is going on with WordPress?

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Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#31

Post by elwebmaster »

lsaferite wrote: post #29
elwebmaster wrote: post #25

I am an outsider to WordPress ecosystem but what really annoys me is that even here on HN people can’t tell the difference between OpenSource software and using another’s services without authorization. They can’t tell the difference between “free as in speech” and “free as in beer”. I am utterly disappointed by that and wish the community will educate itself. Surely releasing the software under open source license d…

Just to be clear, WordPress has the update servers hard coded. If they wanted you to use a different server, making it easily configurable by an end user would seem like the first step before cutting of access to a whole swath of IP addresses.

It is Open Source, right? It means everyone is free to change the source. Oh wait, but that’s hard. Much easier to just point your control panel at the original distribution and start the money printing machine while someone else is footing the bill.

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#32

Post by njbentley1 »

I run a small (tiny) hosting platform for WordPress. I prioritize exceptional customer service as a value-added service.

Before they started hosting their websites with me, all my customers shared a common complaint: they were paying companies like WP Engine and EIG a significant amount of money for a subpar hosting platform. They all expressed dissatisfaction with their websites’ slow performance and the lack of customer support. They struggled to identify what to look for in a WordPress host and often ended up choosing the first result they found in a Google search for “best WordPress host” (exaggeration).

This context partly explains why I support Matt’s decision to target WP Engine. However, my overall agreement with Matt’s choice stems from my belief that open-source projects are only successful when people contribute back. While licensing doesn’t obligate contributors, it’s undeniable that successful businesses rely on the initial creators and subsequent contributors of the project.

While I don’t necessarily agree with Matt’s specific methods, I believe there are likely better ways to address predatory companies like WP Engine that harm the community and Automattic’s reputation far less. I’ve come across some excellent ideas in this thread.

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#33

Post by ankleturtle »

WordPress.org blocked access for WP Engine to their developer account on the website. This means they can no longer push out plugin updates via this path.[0] This comes straight from Matt Mullenweg himself in an interview done today.

0. https://x.com/ryancduff/status/1840192524398231660

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#34

Post by chuckadams »

All this seems to be to pressure WPE to contribute back... but when the entire core and surrounding infrastructure are under the absolute control of a single petty, vindictive, and spiteful individual, it seems the proper amount to be contributing to such a project is zero.

It's high time for a hard fork of WordPress, run by grownups.

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#35

Post by dredmorbius »

bdcravens wrote: post #27
dredmorbius wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were by implication.

Well, that's stretching the HN guidelines even if that were the case. Drawing a conclusion that an author may be biased based on their employment is far from an ad hominem.

If you follow dang's moderation comments closely (and I do, both to understand, and occasionally criticise, his actions), you'll note that implication and nuance actually play critical roles.

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#36

Post by chuckadams »

ankleturtle wrote: post #33

WordPress.org blocked access for WP Engine to their developer account on the website. This means they can no longer push out plugin updates via this path.[0] This comes straight from Matt Mullenweg himself in an interview done today. 0. https://x.com/ryancduff/status/1840192524398231660

Seems to me that after maybe an initial disruption in updates while they whip up a patch, WPE can distribute updates for ACF to their own customers just fine, whereas MM has basically blocked updates to every other host, including wordpress.com itself. Stable genius right here...

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#37

Post by ankleturtle »

njbentley1 wrote: post #32

I run a small (tiny) hosting platform for WordPress. I prioritize exceptional customer service as a value-added service. Before they started hosting their websites with me, all my customers shared a common complaint: they were paying companies like WP Engine and EIG a significant amount of money for a subpar hosting platform. They all expressed dissatisfaction with their websites’ slow performance and the lack of cus…

EIG is not Newfold Digital.[0] Matt has specifically praised EIG hosts.[1] He even praised Godaddy, a company which he called a "parasitic company" just a few years ago.[2]

This is definitely not about subpar hosting for Matt.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endurance_International_Group 1. https://wptavern.com/matt-mullenwegs-ecosystem-thinking-for-... 2. https://wptavern.com/matt-mullenweg-identifies-godaddy-as-a-...

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#39

Post by chuckadams »

elwebmaster wrote: post #31
lsaferite wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to be clear, WordPress has the update servers hard coded. If they wanted you to use a different server, making it easily configurable by an end user would seem like the first step before cutting of access to a whole swath of IP addresses.

It is Open Source, right? It means everyone is free to change the source. Oh wait, but that’s hard. Much easier to just point your control panel at the original distribution and start the money printing machine while someone else is footing the bill.

There is no "control panel" to point. api.wordpress.org is hardwired into the source, and the implementation of that API is not open source. Matt has personally informed us that he is perfectly happy with this setup and has no plans to change it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41675671#41678014

So it's WPE's fault for not forking the ecosystem earlier?

Re: What the heck is going on with WordPress?

#40

Post by Ukv »

> when a company that built all its value on an open-source project decides not to give anything back [...]

As far as I've been able to tell, WP Engine have contributed back. Before this spat they were noted on WordPress.org as contributing 5% of their resources to the WordPress project[0], they have their own open-source projects (e.g: [1]), and sponsor WordPress events. What WP Engine allegedly refused to do was sending tens of millions of dollars to Matt's for-profit company.

I'd like to see this at least addressed rather than just repeating that WP Engine supposedly contributed nothing. Is it that they scaled back contributions just recently? Is it that 5% (plus events/etc.) isn't sufficient?

> Look at the following list of words and try to find the intruder:

> wp-activate.php, wp-admin, wp-blog-header.php, wp_commentmeta [...] wp engine [...] wp-trackback.php, wp_usermeta, wp_users

> Well, all the ones that contain an underscore _ are names of the WordPress core database tables. All the ones that contain a dash - are WordPress core file or folder names. The one with a space is a company name…

Using "WP" in their name is branding allowed by the WordPress Foundation's trademark policy[2]. Not a lawyer, but I don't believe confusion stemming from uses that are permitted by the trademark holder count against them legally, else "WordPress.com" would be in far more trouble.

[0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20240524210250/https://wordpress...

[1]: https://github.com/wpengine/faustjs

[2]: https://web.archive.org/web/20240901224354/https://wordpress...

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