Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 514 posts

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#31

Post by sofixa »

monero-xmr wrote: post #5

The prosecutor who wanted to pardon him was not the original prosecutor, but a recent progressive elected one. The original prosecutor still believes he is guilty. Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. People who are willing to commit murder are often sociopaths and pathological liars. It isn’t surprising he…

> The prosecutor who wanted to pardon him was not the original prosecutor, but a recent progressive elected one

It's beyond stupid to elect people who are in charge of upholding laws and prosecute crimes. They have to campaign, make their views known, and to get elected, show views which of course aren't necessarily related to what their job should be about.

Get professionals that are as impartial as possible. They will still have biases, but they won't have to advertise them and be beholden to them in order to get reelection.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#32

Post by jmyeet »

If you're wondering if the Missouri governor Mike Parson sparingly uses his clemency and pardon power, you'd be mistaken [1]:

> Parson, a former sheriff, has now granted clemency to more than 760 people since 2020 — more than any Missouri governor since the 1940s

including those who waved guns at BLM protestors [2] and the son of the KC Chiefs coach who caused grave bodiy injuries to someone in a DUI.

Available data shows a pretty clear trend [3]:

> An analysis of available demographic data conducted by the Missouri News Network indicates that almost 90% of those who have been granted clemency by the governor are white.

If you're wondering where the US Supreme Court stands on this, consider this quote from then-Justice Antonin Scalia [4]:

> [t]his court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is ‘actually’ innocent.

Also, consider this racial bias demonstrated in the exoneration for those sentence to death [5]:

> Since 1973, at least 189 people wrongly convicted and sentenced to death have been exonerated. 100 of the death row exonerees are Black.

Lastly, even if you want to ignore the immorality of the death setnence, look at it from the lens of cost [6]. Death penalty cases are substantially more expensive to litigate and death row inmates are substantially more expensive to incarcerate. A life-without-parole would be substantially cheaper.

Also, you can release someone from prison wrongly convicted. You cannot bring them back to life and there are multiple cases of people who were executed and later exonerated. Williams is sadly added to that list.

[1]: https://apnews.com/article/kansas-city-chiefs-britt-reid-com...

[2]: https://www.npr.org/2021/08/03/1024446351/missouris-governor...

[3]: https://www.columbiamissourian.com/news/state_news/governors...

[4]: https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/stories/associate-justice-anton...

[5]: https://www.naacpldf.org/our-thinking/death-row-usa/

[6]: https://www.amnestyusa.org/issues/death-penalty/death-penalt...

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#33

Post by aqme28 »

nomilk wrote: post #21
spacechild1 wrote: post #8

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized country!

Suppose we lived in a world where it was possible to know someone's guilt or innocence with strictly 100% confidence. Curious to know if your views would change? Note the cost of incarceration is around ~$70k/year; enough to save lives, house people, heal people, feed people etc if put to other uses.

What’s the point of this analogy? We can’t know 100% so it doesn’t matter.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#34

Post by gizajob »

nomilk wrote: post #21
spacechild1 wrote: post #8

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized country!

Suppose we lived in a world where it was possible to know someone's guilt or innocence with strictly 100% confidence. Curious to know if your views would change? Note the cost of incarceration is around ~$70k/year; enough to save lives, house people, heal people, feed people etc if put to other uses.

If murder is illegal, then it makes no difference if the state does it as punishment for committing murder. You’ve still sanctioned a murder, admittedly of a murderer. A civilised country accepts this simple logic and doesn’t sanction murder under any circumstances.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#36

Post by colinb »

nomilk wrote: post #21
spacechild1 wrote: post #8

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized country!

Suppose we lived in a world where it was possible to know someone's guilt or innocence with strictly 100% confidence. Curious to know if your views would change? Note the cost of incarceration is around ~$70k/year; enough to save lives, house people, heal people, feed people etc if put to other uses.

Here’s another thought experiment. We have ample evidence that the death penalty hasn’t made America safe from murder. But we don’t know if it has deterrence value for lesser crimes.

I propose death by hanging for repeat littering and speeding near a school. I bet that’d be effective.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#37

Post by BostonFern »

From CNN:

“Other evidence that helped convict Williams ‘remains intact,’ the attorney general said.

‘The victim’s personal items were found in Williams’s car after the murder. A witness testified that Williams had sold the victim’s laptop to him. Williams confessed to his girlfriend and an inmate in the St. Louis City Jail, and William’s girlfriend saw him dispose of the bloody clothes worn during the murder,’ the attorney general’s office said.”

https://lite.cnn.com/2024/09/24/us/marcellus-williams-schedu...

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#38

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

nomilk wrote: post #21
spacechild1 wrote: post #8

There is no place for the death penalty in a civilized country!

Suppose we lived in a world where it was possible to know someone's guilt or innocence with strictly 100% confidence. Curious to know if your views would change? Note the cost of incarceration is around ~$70k/year; enough to save lives, house people, heal people, feed people etc if put to other uses.

Even if we had 100% certainty what crimes are 100% worth death? Not even that is simple.

If you want to consider cost, it costs literal millions to execute someone.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#39

Post by tempfile »

tokai wrote: post #9
monero-xmr wrote: post #5

The prosecutor who wanted to pardon him was not the original prosecutor, but a recent progressive elected one. The original prosecutor still believes he is guilty. Furthermore it is highly suspect that he was caught selling the laptop stolen from her house and the story about how he came into it is implausible. People who are willing to commit murder are often sociopaths and pathological liars. It isn’t surprising he…

>People who are willing to commit murder are often sociopaths and pathological liars Only 27% of them apparently[0], so even murderers are still more likely to not be a psychopath. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135917891...

Thanks for posting this, the quoted text smelled like something pulled out of... the air.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#40

Post by [deleted] »

BostonFern wrote: post #37

From CNN: “Other evidence that helped convict Williams ‘remains intact,’ the attorney general said. ‘The victim’s personal items were found in Williams’s car after the murder. A witness testified that Williams had sold the victim’s laptop to him. Williams confessed to his girlfriend and an inmate in the St. Louis City Jail, and William’s girlfriend saw him dispose of the bloody clothes worn during the murder,’ the at…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN