How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout • Hacker News Board

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#31

Post by bmj » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 2:38 PM UTC

quaunaut wrote: post #10

leftnode wrote: post #2

The paragraph When Mayer suspects an employee might burn out, she asks them to find their rhythm. They've come back with, "I need to be home for Tuesday night dinners," or "I need to be on time for my daughter's soccer games." really bothers me. If employee burnout is a regular thing inside your organization, that's a serious issue that needs solving. But to have to ask permission to spend time with your family is ri…

Not always. I get the feeling that the article was more written with the mind of the early days of Google- where one employee working 130 hour weeks could save the company tens/hundreds of thousands, and she wanted it to work that well. Google most definitely doesn't require those insane hours out of people today- hell, quite the opposite. Requesting to spend time with your family does seem ridiculous, but the thing…

Well, I think that's the problem with the article--is the advice geared toward start-up employees, or current Googlers? I agree that in a start-up, you should likely expect longer weeks (even all-nighters), and maybe you do need to ask to have dinner with your family[1]. But at an established company? Seems like a cultural issue.

[1] FWIW, I still think this is insane, and would never want to do it.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#32

Post by dsr_ » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 2:41 PM UTC

cheez wrote: post #19

pgrote wrote: post #6

I wonder how many people are on the opposite side of the equation ... I worked 130 hours a week and lost everything. Somehow, I think the fact she is who she is leave people with the perception that working that much is what it takes.

Care to elaborate?

It's the survivor effect: you don't interview the people who worked 130 hours/week and never got to a viable product, or burnt out before they ever did a press release.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#33

Post by loup-vaillant » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 2:43 PM UTC

cheez wrote: post #19

pgrote wrote: post #6

I wonder how many people are on the opposite side of the equation ... I worked 130 hours a week and lost everything. Somehow, I think the fact she is who she is leave people with the perception that working that much is what it takes.

Care to elaborate?

Survivor bias. We don't get to hear of the failures. Not in the news, at least. So, even if 130 is likely to destroy anyone, a very rare breed of people who have a crazy amount of energy may pull it off. Or maybe working 130 hours a week is too much even for them, but they survive anyway because they were such geniuses to begin with (not very rational geniuses, but still).

If we had more hard data from large, non-biased samples, then we would know for sure the various effects of working 130 hours for various people. Then, we could build advice on that. (Of course I currently have reasons to think that such a study would be a waste of time, and that we just shouldn't work that much, period.)

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#34

Post by eshvk » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 2:46 PM UTC

bmj wrote: post #31

quaunaut wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always. I get the feeling that the article was more written with the mind of the early days of Google- where one employee working 130 hour weeks could save the company tens/hundreds of thousands, and she wanted it to work that well. Google most definitely doesn't require those insane hours out of people today- hell, quite the opposite. Requesting to spend time with your family does seem ridiculous, but the thing…

Well, I think that's the problem with the article--is the advice geared toward start-up employees, or current Googlers? I agree that in a start-up, you should likely expect longer weeks (even all-nighters), and maybe you do need to ask to have dinner with your family[1]. But at an established company? Seems like a cultural issue. [1] FWIW, I still think this is insane, and would never want to do it.

I think she is merely recounting a story from the early days of Google and relating it to the larger problem of employee burnout. I know quite a few current Googlers and as far as I understand nothing so ridiculous happens there now. Of course the problem is incredibly relevant to Startups: I would never enjoy myself in such a restrictive situation unless I was working on my idea but again different people have different tolerance levels...

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#35

Post by quaunaut » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 2:47 PM UTC

bmj wrote: post #31

quaunaut wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not always. I get the feeling that the article was more written with the mind of the early days of Google- where one employee working 130 hour weeks could save the company tens/hundreds of thousands, and she wanted it to work that well. Google most definitely doesn't require those insane hours out of people today- hell, quite the opposite. Requesting to spend time with your family does seem ridiculous, but the thing…

Well, I think that's the problem with the article--is the advice geared toward start-up employees, or current Googlers? I agree that in a start-up, you should likely expect longer weeks (even all-nighters), and maybe you do need to ask to have dinner with your family[1]. But at an established company? Seems like a cultural issue. [1] FWIW, I still think this is insane, and would never want to do it.

And that's okay. It isn't for everyone. Me? I managed to do 60 hours in a 3 day week last week, my first week at a new job. I loved it, and am proud of the work I did in that time. I plan on doing 60-70 hours a week consistently if I can, just because I enjoy it.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#36

Post by lfborjas » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 2:49 PM UTC

Articles like this remind me of Bertrand Russell's [In praise of idleness](http://www.zpub.com/notes/idle.html):

"I want to say, in all seriousness, that a great deal of harm is being done in the modern world by belief in the virtuousness of work, and that the road to happiness and prosperity lies in an organized diminution of work."

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#37

Post by njx » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 2:55 PM UTC

Meditation is the key for me. I think more and more people especially people in the Tech and involved with startups should practice it.

I work 12 hrs daily but spend around 1-2 hrs in meditation and it seems to flush out everything.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#38

Post by technoslut » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 2:57 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #15

> "Overwork doesn't burn people out per se, but it's doing that without knowing the things that replenish you." If you're working 130 hours a week, and sleeping a healthy 56 hours a week, that leaves you with negative 18 hours a week for replenishing yourself. Not even including showering, eating, etc. I'm sorry, but merely having dinner with your family on Tuesday nights is not what it takes to replenish yourself. I…

I agree with you but some people are just not like everyone else.

Mayer is the exception to the rule. My sister, who is taking a year off to work at Google before going to law school, is of the same type so I emailed her this story.

The best that I can do is to tell that life is much more than being a lawyer. That won't make a difference though.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#39

Post by altcognito » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 2:57 PM UTC

samstave wrote: post #16

Im sure the private residence at the 4 seasons in SF and the tens if not hundreds of millions she is worth had plenty to do with her not burning out as well. Further, as others noted - that is ~18 hours per day "working" - and if by "working" we really mean, thinking about her work. This means that she could just as easily be "working" when being chauffeured from house to work, or on the plane or eating dinner. Its n…

Hell no she wasn't. Not as Google employee #20. The implication in the article is that she was actually working in front of a screen. And while thinking is definitely "working", I don't do much thinking without at least a desk.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#40

Post by theorique » Mon, Jun 25, 2012, 2:58 PM UTC

If a person can work 3x normal (40 x 3 = 120 hours, which is almost the 130 hours she claims to have worked in the past) and generate 10-1000x the value of most people, it might be a worthy tradeoff for some time.

In the long run, however, it can be hard to sustain that kind of pace.