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Lisp implemented in Rust macros

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Re: Lisp implemented in Rust macros

#31

Post by devjab »

krick wrote: post #26
munificent wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that the "sufficiently complicated" part bothered you, but not the "ad hoc", "informally-specified", "bug-ridden", or "slow" parts.

No, I think it's pretty fair. One could argue about these, but except for "slow" these are more quality qualifiers, rather than quantity. So you either agree it's "bug-ridden" or not (i.e. the number and seriousness of bugs in it is negligible by whatever standards). And I think even "slow" can be discussed in the same manner, the actual speed is quantitative, of course, but in the end one either argues that this spe…

Isn’t that sort of the point? It makes the argument impossible to dispute. If it’s not slow or big-ridden, then it’s just not sufficiently complicated. Which you’re correct to call out.

I think what makes it work is that Common Lisp very quickly becomes a faster way to do things because of how insanely efficient it is.

Re: Lisp implemented in Rust macros

#32

Post by quasigloam »

zxexz wrote: post #28
krick wrote: post #27

Everyone is supposed to be cheering for how "fun" it is, but every time I see anything like that I cannot help but think, that I hate the fact it can be implemented in Rust. It never truly was a simple language, but I think it started as something way more manageable than what it has become.

Rust is definitely not a simple language, I agree there. I am quite likely a bit naïve here, but I'm having trouble understanding why you hate that this is possible. Now, the macro system definitely can generate near infinitely-complex code, but I'm not getting how implementing a sandboxed lisp using macros is a particularly potent example of the language being less manageable than at its genesis. On another note, th…

Implementing a lisp in the type system would be fun, that's originally what this project was about until I got distracted with macros. Awesome projects like fortraith (https://github.com/Ashymad/fortraith) already exist, and even far more useful projects like dimensioned (compile time dimensional analysis using type level numbers) are inspiring. These examples, although cool, are probably a worse sign for krick for Rust compared with macro_rules being Turing complete.

Re: Lisp implemented in Rust macros

#33

Post by zxexz »

quasigloam wrote: post #32
zxexz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust is definitely not a simple language, I agree there. I am quite likely a bit naïve here, but I'm having trouble understanding why you hate that this is possible. Now, the macro system definitely can generate near infinitely-complex code, but I'm not getting how implementing a sandboxed lisp using macros is a particularly potent example of the language being less manageable than at its genesis. On another note, th…

Implementing a lisp in the type system would be fun, that's originally what this project was about until I got distracted with macros. Awesome projects like fortraith ( https://github.com/Ashymad/fortraith ) already exist, and even far more useful projects like dimensioned (compile time dimensional analysis using type level numbers) are inspiring. These examples, although cool, are probably a worse sign for krick for…

Aha, that's pretty cool! Didn't even scroll more halfway down the page before my lizard brain saw some something resembling Peano numbers.

Thanks for sharing your project, by the way - between this and the other one you linked, I think I know what my leisure time this weekend is going to consist of...

Re: Lisp implemented in Rust macros

#34

Post by celeritascelery »

throwup238 wrote: post #19
quasigloam wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, at the moment I just assume that all atoms are rust idents because that makes it easier to implement (I can just match against $x:ident), so it doesn't support dashes in atoms. I guess you could match against `$x:ident $(- $y:ident)*` instead? That should work I think, I'd have to change some details in some of the arms but it seems like that would be possible.

Wouldn’t that match “(foo - bar)” as well as “(foo-bar)”? I don’t think you can get around token whitespace in macro_rules

It would, but lisp has prefix operators, so you wouldn’t have to worry about it getting confused.

Re: Lisp implemented in Rust macros

#35

Post by PhilipRoman »

bigdict wrote: post #24
duetosymmetry wrote: post #5

Greenspun's tenth rule strikes again! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule

nah, this is about codebases that are not themselves primarily lisp implementations

Pretty sure it applies to Common Lisp itself too.

Re: Lisp implemented in Rust macros

#36

Post by pkolaczk »

krick wrote: post #27

Everyone is supposed to be cheering for how "fun" it is, but every time I see anything like that I cannot help but think, that I hate the fact it can be implemented in Rust. It never truly was a simple language, but I think it started as something way more manageable than what it has become.

> but I think it started as something way more manageable than what it has become.

Hard disagree here. Rust team is continuously making the language easier to work with by removing limitations and making features more orthogonal. A notable example is non lexical lifetimes, impl Trait in return position or async traits. Also they have removed some features eg before it went 1.0, it even had GCed references built in with special syntax.

Re: Lisp implemented in Rust macros

#37

Post by quasigloam »

zxexz wrote: post #33
quasigloam wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implementing a lisp in the type system would be fun, that's originally what this project was about until I got distracted with macros. Awesome projects like fortraith ( https://github.com/Ashymad/fortraith ) already exist, and even far more useful projects like dimensioned (compile time dimensional analysis using type level numbers) are inspiring. These examples, although cool, are probably a worse sign for krick for…

Aha, that's pretty cool! Didn't even scroll more halfway down the page before my lizard brain saw some something resembling Peano numbers. Thanks for sharing your project, by the way - between this and the other one you linked, I think I know what my leisure time this weekend is going to consist of...

No problem! I had fun making it, for such a silly little project it's given me a surprising amount of joy. If you want to look at another cool project that's tangentially related, have a look at Sectorlisp.

Re: Lisp implemented in Rust macros

#38

Post by quasigloam »

celeritascelery wrote: post #34
throwup238 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn’t that match “(foo - bar)” as well as “(foo-bar)”? I don’t think you can get around token whitespace in macro_rules

It would, but lisp has prefix operators, so you wouldn’t have to worry about it getting confused.

Although in a Lisp such as Scheme, you could pass around the negation operator in something like (map - '(1 2 3)), so it would be a valid concern that it might clash.

Re: Lisp implemented in Rust macros

#39

Post by zxexz »

quasigloam wrote: post #37
zxexz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aha, that's pretty cool! Didn't even scroll more halfway down the page before my lizard brain saw some something resembling Peano numbers. Thanks for sharing your project, by the way - between this and the other one you linked, I think I know what my leisure time this weekend is going to consist of...

No problem! I had fun making it, for such a silly little project it's given me a surprising amount of joy. If you want to look at another cool project that's tangentially related, have a look at Sectorlisp.

Oh, I'm very well acquainted with Sectorlisp - I even have a scrappy local package on nixos to build, boot and launch a qemu repl for it locally! Somewhere around here there's an HDD in an X200 that probably still has it in the boot sector on its HDD.

I think I objectively suck at lisp, but that doesn't preclude me from being a "Greenspan enjoyer" :) I think all of my projects that used Selenium ended up with a haphazardly-pieced-together lisp interpreter as their scripting tool after I realized whatever I was writing was effectively becoming a DSL in a .ini/.yaml/.toml file. These days, I mostly use nix, but my dream is a lispy NixOS (yes, I know of and have used Guix, but I really just want a lispNix 'native' compiler, and to be able to use it with nixpkgs without hassle).

Re: Lisp implemented in Rust macros

#40

Post by zozbot234 »

celeritascelery wrote: post #17

I tried doing something similar to this once. I ran into an issue where I couldn’t define symbols with a dash in them (DEFINE MY-FN…). This is because rust will split the tokens on a dash. It was a small thing, but it meant I couldn’t just copy and paste snippets from a real lisp, I had to transform everything to underscore. Is it the same in your implementation?

> I ran into an issue where I couldn’t define symbols with a dash in them

I'm not seeing any issue? (DEFINE MYᜭFN...) works just fine.

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