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Where are programming languages created? A zoomable map

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Re: Where are programming languages created? A zoomable map

#31

Post by neonsunset »

Quothling wrote: post #9
bazoom42 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO C# is a very good, pragmatic language. It is not unique and groundbreaking like say Lisp, but it has a very well balanced set of features which makes is both productive and maintainable. It doesn’t have the level of boilerplate which make Java tedious, but its strong static type system makes it (IMHO) more maintainable than say Python for larger projects.

I think C# is a perfectly fine language, but as you say it's not really groundbreaking or unique. It's probably not even my top-five choice for general purpose language in 2024 but it's obviously gotten (is still getting) "the job done". If we're to praise Anders Hejlsberg's work I would personally pick Typescript above C#. Just look at how influential Typescript has been for global development in the previous decade…

What is your top 5?

Re: Where are programming languages created? A zoomable map

#32

Post by varjag »

mseepgood wrote: post #21
varjag wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time it misses Russia's Kotlin.

While Kotlin is a Russian island the Kotlin programming language was created by JetBrains which is a Czech company founded by Russians with headquarters in Prague. You will find Kotlin on the map in the Prague circle.

The Czech office is a flag of convenience. Until the full-scale invasion all development of this Russian named product founded by Russians was happening in Russian Federation. But formally you have a point.

Re: Where are programming languages created? A zoomable map

#33

Post by wruza »

mseepgood wrote: post #21
varjag wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the same time it misses Russia's Kotlin.

While Kotlin is a Russian island the Kotlin programming language was created by JetBrains which is a Czech company founded by Russians with headquarters in Prague. You will find Kotlin on the map in the Prague circle.

And Yandex is a Netherlands company, right. Russians have a reasonable tradition to register things outside of “their” country.

Re: Where are programming languages created? A zoomable map

#34

Post by cherrybajan »

varjag wrote: post #18
racingmars wrote: post #15

"Microsoft Notepad." "BMP image format." Seemed like the definition of "programming language" was quite odd (given the title of the submission to HN is "Where are programming languages created?"), but then I noticed the actual title of the page is "Where does software innovation happen?" and is not restricted to programming languages.

At the same time it misses Russia's Kotlin.

Way back in USSR days, there used to be this language called Nairi or something like that

Re: Where are programming languages created? A zoomable map

#35

Post by flohofwoe »

firesteelrain wrote: post #28
flohofwoe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be many reason I guess (after all, there's only 5.5 million Finns around), but the map is a bit pointless IMHO because it only counts university and research lab projects. Most recent languages I'm aware of (and which are actually useful in the real world) had been started by individuals in their spare time.

Which most recent (and how recent) were started by individuals in their spare time? Perl is one that comes to mind and it’s old.

Rust, Zig, Odin, Nim are probably the most popular. It's also not surprising IMHO, most software is created to scratch a particular itch of an individual. Also specifically for programming languages, LLVM made it possible for individuals to build their own pet language with relatively little effort but still get competitive performance and target platform coverage.

Re: Where are programming languages created? A zoomable map

#36

Post by firesteelrain »

flohofwoe wrote: post #35
firesteelrain wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which most recent (and how recent) were started by individuals in their spare time? Perl is one that comes to mind and it’s old.

Rust, Zig, Odin, Nim are probably the most popular. It's also not surprising IMHO, most software is created to scratch a particular itch of an individual. Also specifically for programming languages, LLVM made it possible for individuals to build their own pet language with relatively little effort but still get competitive performance and target platform coverage.

Rust though didn’t gain traction until Mozilla adopted it. I guess we could say individuals always created programming languages but majority are sponsored and paid by orgs/companies.

Re: Where are programming languages created? A zoomable map

#37

Post by mseepgood »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #29
wiseowise wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I wonder what this map might look like by the end of the century... Why would it suddenly change?

Well for one, the world demography is deeply changing with population aging everywhere but a significant lag between countries which are already greying (Japan, Europe), countries which rely heavily on immigration to keep the median age stable (the USA) and countries which are just beginning to age but have large population (India, China, Brazil).

Old people don't innovate? Sounds like an ageist stereotype.

Re: Where are programming languages created? A zoomable map

#38

Post by bazoom42 »

neonsunset wrote: post #31
Quothling wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think C# is a perfectly fine language, but as you say it's not really groundbreaking or unique. It's probably not even my top-five choice for general purpose language in 2024 but it's obviously gotten (is still getting) "the job done". If we're to praise Anders Hejlsberg's work I would personally pick Typescript above C#. Just look at how influential Typescript has been for global development in the previous decade…

What is your top 5?

I’d say the most important languages are Fortran, Algol, Lisp, and ML. All other general-purpose languages are just different combinations of features from these.

But best depend on the task at hand.

Re: Where are programming languages created? A zoomable map

#39

Post by flohofwoe »

firesteelrain wrote: post #36
flohofwoe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust, Zig, Odin, Nim are probably the most popular. It's also not surprising IMHO, most software is created to scratch a particular itch of an individual. Also specifically for programming languages, LLVM made it possible for individuals to build their own pet language with relatively little effort but still get competitive performance and target platform coverage.

Rust though didn’t gain traction until Mozilla adopted it. I guess we could say individuals always created programming languages but majority are sponsored and paid by orgs/companies.

Before LLVM it was much harder for individuals to build competitive programming languages though (edited my original post with that afterthought, apologies)

Re: Where are programming languages created? A zoomable map

#40

Post by pjmlp »

emmanueloga_ wrote: post #30
Quothling wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think C# is a perfectly fine language, but as you say it's not really groundbreaking or unique. It's probably not even my top-five choice for general purpose language in 2024 but it's obviously gotten (is still getting) "the job done". If we're to praise Anders Hejlsberg's work I would personally pick Typescript above C#. Just look at how influential Typescript has been for global development in the previous decade…

I disagree with C# not being groundbreaking or unique, at least to some extent. Yes, a big part of the language could be considered "vanilla object oriented", but that's not really a bad thing. These are some things that C# pioneered: * Expression Trees and LINQ (still a pretty unique feature) * async/await/yield syntax, adopted later by many others * get/set property methods * null coalescing (??) syntax * extension…

- Stuff like LINQ and Expression Trees are to be found in Lisps, Smalltalk and ML derived languages

- Kind of true on this one, although Active Objects, and various flavours of co-routines predate its use in Midori, which eventually lead to async/await design

- Already present in Eiffel and Delphi

- Eiffel among possible others

- Special case of languages that allow for generalised call operators, and Delphi and C++ Builder did partial before

F# currently is so relevant that apparently has zero content to show up on .NET 9 release notes.

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