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Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

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Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#31

Post by Aeolun »

darth_avocado wrote: post #28
dheera wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just left Amazon, and the situation is identical at several other companies based on anecdotal evidence from friends, so it's very much a big company issue as well. The biggest problem with many startups I think is workaholic, narcissist founders who don't know how to treat humans like humans. It's generally less procedural and internal competition bullshit than big tech, but more immature management trying to bite…

I’d understand the expectations if you have 0.5% stake in the company. The problem is, most employers expect the same while paying below market rates to employees who have no stake in the company.

I wouldn't. If I'm employee nr. 5, why is my stake in the company 0.5% while yours is 30%? That wouldn't be enough to feel like anything more than an employee that doesn't have to give a shit to me.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#32

Post by purple-leafy »

How are you doing now? I too suffered pretty severe burnout. I’m a programmer.

I realised my burnout came from working (5 days a week), feels like an unending marathon

What worked for me was dropping one full day of work each week. Now work 32 hours a week, really happy

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#33

Post by dheera »

darth_avocado wrote: post #26
linotype wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m starting to wonder if this problem is more startup related or if big companies have this issue as well. The math for startup employees financially doesn’t make sense anymore anyway and for most probably never did.

It’s the same everywhere. ICs are expected to work themselves to death meanwhile the manager/executive class gets paid. The definition of what’s “normal” work has been shifting for years. Personally I’m just curious to see what happens when everyone just gives up. People already feel working hard no longer leads to a better life. ( https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/2020-edelman-tr... ) Will the management…

> People already feel working hard no longer leads to a better life.

For me, it's not just a feeling; objectively, it doesn't.

I tried working hard. As a PhD student, as a founder. I had my 1st cardiac arrest the week after my graduation and my 3rd cardiac arrest during the height of startup stress. After that all I can say is that I'd rather have a life than my life lost. Fuck working hard. Work smart, work healthy, get a reasonable amount of shit done, but take care of yourself, your family, and your friends and enjoy everything the Earth has to offer before you die.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#34

Post by siamese_puff »

What to do? My company dropped support for therapy, I pay $4k a month in rent and feel I probably just won’t wake up some days. I wouldn’t mind taking a break, but the nonstop posts about not being able to get a job don’t help. Have never felt more trapped.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#35

Post by notepad0x90 »

OP, I don't know a solution to this, but I'm curious if you've tried intensive exercise routines, low calorie diets, time in nature, cold showers, socializing and, working on your non-work life as a whole? I've seen this help me out in similar battles and I have also seen them recommended to others.

I also have a more general question to everyone on this thread, what is the difference between burnout and demotivation? How can one tell the difference?

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#36

Post by linotype »

darth_avocado wrote: post #26
linotype wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m starting to wonder if this problem is more startup related or if big companies have this issue as well. The math for startup employees financially doesn’t make sense anymore anyway and for most probably never did.

It’s the same everywhere. ICs are expected to work themselves to death meanwhile the manager/executive class gets paid. The definition of what’s “normal” work has been shifting for years. Personally I’m just curious to see what happens when everyone just gives up. People already feel working hard no longer leads to a better life. ( https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/2020-edelman-tr... ) Will the management…

I was afraid this was the case. Meanwhile corporations are about to see their taxes cut even further. Just wild the times we live in.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#37

Post by patrickhogan1 »

Aeolun wrote: post #29
patrickhogan1 wrote: post #20

Interestingly, while chronic sleep deprivation is harmful, studies show that a single night of sleep deprivation can have a rapid, temporary antidepressant effect in 40-60% of people with depression. I tried this after burning out on my third startup, and it helped me short-term when I needed it most. You can read more about the research Penn Medicine ( https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2017/septemb...…

So people that keep going to bed too late are self medicating?

Dan Gross, in his “How to Win” talk, discusses the Software Engineer’s (SWE) 25-hour cycle and emphasizes the importance of sleep for overall performance and well-being. I completely agree with his focus on sleep. The strategy mentioned above is meant as a temporary fix when healthier alternatives—like restful sleep, regular exercise, a balanced diet, or sauna use—aren’t effective. It also has an immediate effect, unlike many medications, making it a useful, isolated experiment.

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxy4qdJ_dSU4Thv0MpGzqxJ8OYPfSvPW3...

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#38

Post by burningChrome »

Early on in my career (I was a late bloomer and already in early 30's) as a developer, I got burnt out pretty bad twice. After the second time and teetering on a third, I knew I had to do something to change what I was doing and how I managed my work load.

I just focused on getting MY stuff done and that was it. I stopped taking on other's people work. I stopped taking on more work once I got my stuff done. I would do exactly what a Sprint called for. Nothing more, nothing less. If I finished early with my tasks, I would stretch out the time and just tell the scrum master I was close, but not done yet, but always finished on time. I basically just did what was required of me. I wasn't out to impress anybody, I just became "Mr. Dependable" on any of the teams I worked on.

This was the approach that changed everything.

Now, some ten years later? I'm never too high or too low. I still do the same thing, I still just do what is asked of me and that's it. 5pm every night? Laptop gets turned off. Friday at 6pm? Laptop is off for the entire weekend. I turn it back on right before my meetings on Monday. Separating my personal life from my work life with a hard delimiter was paramount.

I found out that if you don't protect your sanity and your own well being, people will take advantage of you and your time and it will never end. Once you break the cycle and get that time back for yourself? You'll make sure you never willingly give it to someone else ever again.

Protect yourself. Protect your sanity. Once you lose it, like OP said, it's very, very hard to get back.

I hope this helps someone else struggling to break this cycle.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#39

Post by linotype »

dheera wrote: post #33
darth_avocado wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the same everywhere. ICs are expected to work themselves to death meanwhile the manager/executive class gets paid. The definition of what’s “normal” work has been shifting for years. Personally I’m just curious to see what happens when everyone just gives up. People already feel working hard no longer leads to a better life. ( https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/2020-edelman-tr... ) Will the management…

> People already feel working hard no longer leads to a better life. For me, it's not just a feeling; objectively, it doesn't. I tried working hard. As a PhD student, as a founder. I had my 1st cardiac arrest the week after my graduation and my 3rd cardiac arrest during the height of startup stress. After that all I can say is that I'd rather have a life than my life lost. Fuck working hard. Work smart, work healthy,…

I don’t know you but I’m glad you’re still with us.

Re: Tell HN: Burnout is bad to your brain, take care

#40

Post by parpfish »

burningChrome wrote: post #38

Early on in my career (I was a late bloomer and already in early 30's) as a developer, I got burnt out pretty bad twice. After the second time and teetering on a third, I knew I had to do something to change what I was doing and how I managed my work load. I just focused on getting MY stuff done and that was it. I stopped taking on other's people work. I stopped taking on more work once I got my stuff done. I would d…

It’s worth pointing out that the people you need to protect yourself from aren’t necessarily doing anything malicious — they just don’t know your limits and will keep feeding you work as long as you keep saying yes.

It was a revelation for me when I realized I could tell people “no, I’m swamped right now” and they’d be “ok, no problem”

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