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Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

nytimes.com

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Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#31

Post by defrost »

piva00 wrote: post #14
cjpearson wrote: post #2

Is this a principled defense of free speech or a case of a man treating ostensibly independent companies as divisions of his personal conglomerate?

The court orders for Twitter in Brazil were way more tame and based on judicial procedures than orders that Elon followed from Turkey and other less democratic countries. There's no visible rhyme or reason why he's fighting the Brazilian courts much harder than orders from other less democratic countries, something else is happening unrelated to free speech or any lip service he pays to.

> There's no visible rhyme or reason why ..

Somebody made a case in an earlier thread (that I haven't had time to pursue) that Brazil has the largest lithium mining company (not fields or mines) with standing contracts in South America .. and they claimed that Musk wants to seed unrest | see Bolsonaro (or his party) back in to get a better deal on raw materials for his battery factories in Texas.

That has a plausible ring to it (but, again, I stress I haven't chased the details).

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#32

Post by rowanG077 »

malermeister wrote: post #17
redog wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ever hear about the Kessler effect?

Yup, it's the reason we shouldn't be shooting up Satellites for frivolous reasons like internet in the first place.

I really don't know what to tell you if you think one of the most practical human inventions in history is frivolous...

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#33

Post by mrmlz »

malermeister wrote: post #25
mrmlz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha - oh no, he is going to far with allowing free speech. The sender and the tone is more important to you I guess?

Was it free speech when he banned a bunch of leftists for disagreeing with his views?

And I disagree with him only allowing right wing radicals and banning left wing radicals.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#34

Post by mschuster91 »

incrudible wrote: post #24
simonhorlick wrote: post #6

X is turning into a wasteland of angry people and bots. Bluesky is much more refreshing, similar to the old twitter.

Twitter is far from a wasteland. Nothing that matters is exclusively on Bluesky, but a lot of it is on Twitter. The "old media" heavily relies on Twitter, too. Anger is a major driver of engagement on any medium, it's only natural that this shows through on Twitter. Alternative platforms appear to be more civil because they're islands of echo-chambers. The anger is still there, it's just directed at the more abstract…

> Alternative platforms appear to be more civil because they're islands of echo-chambers. The anger is still there, it's just directed at the more abstract out-group, rather than any individuals that are part of the conversation.

I'd say there are less bots and Putin-financed "fifth column" groups around on the Twitter alternatives, and that is the key thing. The porn spammers that make up half of the "likes" notifications on Twitter just don't see bsky or the fediverse as juicy targets and Instagram/Threads has far better tooling to yeet them, and the Putin propaganda army knows that the utter majority of people on bsky/fediverse are progressives where their points just don't appeal.

Social media would be way less toxic if the Western world had yeeted Russia off of the Internet after 2014.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#35

Post by flotzam »

Sayrus wrote: post #29
flotzam wrote: post #8

Just how important are the ground stations in Brazil? (I don't mean the end user terminals.) If Starlink will basically continue to work well enough if those are seized, it seems like the obvious next steps are going to be crypto/stablecoin payments and a focus on small form factor terminals like Starlink Mini that can bypass customs.

And then Starlink users get fined or arrested and Starlink Minis get seized. Also how good does it look for an international company to sell as evading customs and imports taxes. Crypto and stablecoin don't make the physical reality of owning such a device disappear.

They probably wouldn't sell terminals straight to Brazilian customers but rely on resale to keep their hands clean.

I'm not sure how feasible first finding and then fining/arresting owners would be. The proposed VPN fines were seen as outrageously disproportionate.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#36

Post by orwin »

mrmlz wrote: post #15
orwin wrote: post #12

This storyline was a rare case of me supporting Elon, but once again, he goes too far, childishly, for his ego. He is just proving a lot of people i don't particularly like right, that billionaires are supranational powers. Which does support a very marxist view on capitalism (and productivism sadly), that it enable money to create power above political power.

Haha - oh no, he is going to far with allowing free speech. The sender and the tone is more important to you I guess?

What sender and tone? The issue is that an individual show power superior to that of a state. And a powerful and rich one at that.

I would care if he did the same to Turkey or India where similar demand were made (it wasn't legislative power there, but still). I really appreciate the fact that he called Brazil out, i would have really appreciated if he called India or Turkey out, i think this is going too far.

And as for "going to far with allowing free speech", why doesn't he do the same in China, where free speech issues seems to be far greater, and the great Firewall is blocking way more than just X?

No, he was just sightly hypocritical but seemed mostly principled before this choice, now he just seems too powerful, hypocritical and egotistic. You know what my theory is? Brazil just died as a Tesla importer because of BYD, so he chose to make a stand on it, while India and Turkey used to be potential countries he could invest in at the time so he shut up and let them walk over him.

It seems its just about money, so he grandstand on his principles when almost no money is being made, and shut up when he doesn't want to upset people with dollars he could get.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#37

Post by Levitz »

pavlov wrote: post #13
seydor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing leading to the other. It is what it is. Are the judge's (possibly illegal) moves motivated by interpretation of the law or by personal vendetta? Hard to tell , but i'm glad for less censorship.

As the past two years of Twitter's evolution have shown, more power to Elon Musk actually leads to more censorship. He's running the social media service like a kingdom where lèse-majesté is the gravest offense, promoting himself and blocking any topics that he doesn't personally like (including the existence of his own daughter who posts on Threads now). Old Twitter had flawed content moderation processes, but at le…

In what way does taking X off Brazil decrease the censorship in Brazil?

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#38

Post by rapsey »

pavlov wrote: post #13
seydor wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing leading to the other. It is what it is. Are the judge's (possibly illegal) moves motivated by interpretation of the law or by personal vendetta? Hard to tell , but i'm glad for less censorship.

As the past two years of Twitter's evolution have shown, more power to Elon Musk actually leads to more censorship. He's running the social media service like a kingdom where lèse-majesté is the gravest offense, promoting himself and blocking any topics that he doesn't personally like (including the existence of his own daughter who posts on Threads now). Old Twitter had flawed content moderation processes, but at le…

I mean he paid 40 billion. He can run it any way he pleases.

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#39

Post by hkt »

seydor wrote: post #16
pavlov wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the past two years of Twitter's evolution have shown, more power to Elon Musk actually leads to more censorship. He's running the social media service like a kingdom where lèse-majesté is the gravest offense, promoting himself and blocking any topics that he doesn't personally like (including the existence of his own daughter who posts on Threads now). Old Twitter had flawed content moderation processes, but at le…

[flagged]

Violent?

Re: Starlink Defies Order to Block X in Brazil

#40

Post by teekert »

cjpearson wrote: post #2

Is this a principled defense of free speech or a case of a man treating ostensibly independent companies as divisions of his personal conglomerate?

Looks to me like Brazil is treating ostensibly independent companies as divisions of Musks personal conglomerate.

They blocked the funds of Starlink because of X related business. So why are you saying this?

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