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E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space

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Re: E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space

#31

Post by kwhitefoot »

WithinReason wrote: post #7

Instead of reflecting ambient light, why not measure it and then emit the same amount? It should be indistinguishable (as long as you reconstruct the RGB colors properly), so you can use a regular OLED display.

Because a sunny day at the equator is about a kilowatt per square metre. A typical mobile phone display is about 100 cm^2 (0.01 m^2), so you would need to emit 10 watts to match sunlight.

As far as I can tell OLEDs are 20% efficient or less so you would need an input power of 50 W. Even at 60 deg. N where I live we get over 300 W/m^2 in August so would still need about 15 W of input power to the display.

Re: E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space

#32

Post by orlandohill »

dgan wrote: post #2

Anyone using large e-ink monitor for programming? I cautious about trying one because I wouldn't want to wait 1 full second every time I scroll yhe sources

I've been using a 13.3" Dasung Paperlike HD-FT e-ink monitor since 2020. The refresh rate is fine for reading and writing code, and most websites are easily usable in black and white. I normally use a terminal-based text editor in light-mode with syntax colouring turned off. It's not great for detailed videos, but sometimes it's good enough.

Dasung have since released 25.3" monochrome and color e-ink monitors, and a more portable 12" color e-ink monitor.

https://shop.dasung.com/

Re: E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space

#33

Post by user_7832 »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #22
fsflover wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be nice to see somebody do a device that isn't crippled in terms of hardware and software. Have a look at PineNote.

> Powered by a powerful and efficient RK3566 SoC with four A55 cores, and backed by 4GBs of RAM and 128GBs of eMMC storage Exactly what I mean by anemic. The only likable thing in that device is the screen.

Likely not the reply you were looking for, but in theory a PineNote would be a great "donor" device for modification. For example - get your favorite SBC (Raspberry 5?), figure out how to connect it (likely eDP, documentation shouldn't be hard), make a new shell/body and you're done!

...If you have the technical know-how, time, space, tools and motivation of course.

It's not that no one does such stuff (see r/cyberdeck), but yeah admittedly if you're not an engineer it likely isn't the easiest.

Re: E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space

#34

Post by orlandohill »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #16

It would be nice to see somebody do a device that isn't crippled in terms of hardware and software. In my experience, most hardware companies aren't very good at software and vice versa. Apple seems a rare exception to this rule. I'd love a laptop that I can use outside. Even my current macbook pro isn't that good outside. It kind of works but it's not that comfortable on the eyes. And that's supposed to be a screen…

You could connect your laptop to an e-ink monitor. That's what I do.

I've been using a 13.3" Dasung Paperlike HD-FT e-ink monitor since 2020. The refresh rate is fine for reading and writing code, and most websites are easily usable in black and white. I normally use a terminal-based text editor in light-mode with syntax colouring turned off. It's not great for detailed videos, but sometimes it's good enough.

Dasung have since released 25.3" monochrome and color e-ink monitors, and a more portable 12" color e-ink monitor.

https://shop.dasung.com/

Re: E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space

#35

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #16

It would be nice to see somebody do a device that isn't crippled in terms of hardware and software. In my experience, most hardware companies aren't very good at software and vice versa. Apple seems a rare exception to this rule. I'd love a laptop that I can use outside. Even my current macbook pro isn't that good outside. It kind of works but it's not that comfortable on the eyes. And that's supposed to be a screen…

> most hardware companies aren't very good at software and vice versa

This has also been my experience.

[SOURCE] Software engineer for hardware companies, for over 30 years.

Re: E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space

#36

Post by AshamedCaptain »

intothemild wrote: post #21
Ciantic wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I loved MIP models too. I'm really annoyed that the last Gramin Forerunner watch with an MIP display was 955, and it's now discontinued and was recently removed from Garmin's website. All their new models have OLED, and I kind of understand as it looks better indoors but wastes a huge amount of battery when used outside. I would have preferred they investigate some of these newer LCD screens that can work reflec…

I'm a long distance runner. So my requirements are slightly different than the average person. But that said. It seems to me Garmin's strategy is clear, the Forerunner and even the Fenix lines are going to be OLED. Where as the Enduro is the MIP line. Sure there's a MIP Fenix 8, but I feel like that might be something that eventually goes as more people who are newer to sports watches, the people transitioning over f…

I have no idea how Garmin markets outdoor activity watches with OLED screens.

Re: E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space

#38

Post by Terr_ »

mft_ wrote: post #26
jillesvangurp wrote: post #16

It would be nice to see somebody do a device that isn't crippled in terms of hardware and software. In my experience, most hardware companies aren't very good at software and vice versa. Apple seems a rare exception to this rule. I'd love a laptop that I can use outside. Even my current macbook pro isn't that good outside. It kind of works but it's not that comfortable on the eyes. And that's supposed to be a screen…

I’m hopeful that the ‘working outdoors’ issue may be solved within a couple of generations of AR glasses. Something that can project one or two virtual monitors at a workable resolution, without totally cutting off the outside world, and while looking roughly like a pair of glasses.

One problem is going to be selectively darkening pixels within the glass itself to get a decent contrast.

Re: E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space

#39

Post by LtWorf »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #16

It would be nice to see somebody do a device that isn't crippled in terms of hardware and software. In my experience, most hardware companies aren't very good at software and vice versa. Apple seems a rare exception to this rule. I'd love a laptop that I can use outside. Even my current macbook pro isn't that good outside. It kind of works but it's not that comfortable on the eyes. And that's supposed to be a screen…

> Even my current macbook pro isn't that good outside

Shiny screens are notoriously bad outdoors.

Re: E Ink faces growing competition in the "paper-like" display space

#40

Post by msephton »

djtango wrote: post #30
e-_pusher wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Daylight tablet is the closest to Playdate display among the tablets listed in the article.

Some people on Reddit speculate the Daylight Computer is also a Sharp screen. Unsure whether memory LCD and IGZO are related as I'm very new to this space (and trying not to fall too deep into the rabbit hole) The play date screen is beautiful. So is the daylight computer but no colour is just a deal breaker for me unfortunately. Some charts/diagrams use colours and being unable to understand how the colour is being…

I ran some Daylight Computer photos from a trip to their factory through Google Lens and it was the Sharp factory in Japan. No doubt.

It seems that they took a certain Sharp screen and simply took off the colour layer. Citation needed.

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