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Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

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Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#31

Post by dpeck »

timsally wrote: post #10

The top rated comment on this question asserts that the reason why programmers have lower salaries is because they are logical, intelligent individuals who refuse to play the politics game and thus are hated by executives. Not only it this incorrect (have you seen the politics in certain open source software projects ?) but it plays into a narrative that programmers want to believe: business people are corrupt and pr…

"many programmers work in businesses where software is a cost center. If you want to make money as a programmer, you need to work at a company where software is a generator of profit and negotiate compensation aggressively after demonstrating your value."

This is right on. Looking back to when I was finishing my degree an older friend of mine advised that if possibly you shouldn't work for a company who's primary income stream isn't what you do. I still think this is a fantastic suggestion. Not everyone can be an important member of the R&D group for their employer, but if you've got the chops why shouldn't you be?

I find that doing that you get the best of both worlds. You're valued enough that you get shielded from most of the office prattle and politics, you usually report very high up the hierarchy ( I've never reported less than one level down from executive team, and usually its been directly to a C-level position), and these teams tend to be full of others who know their shit and will make you better. Of course the compensation is usually quite good too, and bonus you're unlikely to be held to a standard soul sucking 9-5 schedule, or God forbid have to be on call.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#32

Post by stephencanon »

nickbarnwell wrote: post #26
stephencanon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This; in my experience median compensation for programmers is comparable to PMs, and the high-end of programmer compensation is significantly higher than that for PMs.

A programmer high on the compensation scale will typically have decided to stay on the "Individual Contributor" track and top out as a "Distinguished Engineer" or similar title, but still be considered as a programmer. A PM who has advanced to a similar level, on the other hand, is likely to be some sort of VP or SVP and considered an "executive". That is to say the PM compensation track divergers, while the Engineer…

Let me be more clear: I'm talking about something like an MTS or Senior Engineer, rather than a Fellow or Distinguished Engineer (and FWIW, at many firms, a Fellow/Distinguished Engineer may very well have compensation comparable to a Director/VP).

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#33

Post by zerostar07 »

I believe its similar to what happens in other sectors: PMs have to deal with people, do lots and lots of schleps without the constant rewards of creating something, designing something beautiful or the serendipitous discovery of something remarkable. As a developer I m not jealous of their position, I know they get paid better for doing what i Don't want to do

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#34

Post by bmj »

In my engineering group, we don't have project managers or analysts. We have product managers (who are responsible for much more than a project manager, and make more than the average PM, methinks). The lead engineer on each project does some PM-y tasks, but it's generally up to the product manager to produce the documentation/charts/spreadsheets.

In our operations group, there are PMs, but they are responsible for more than managing programmers on projects--they oversee the whole project, and must manage the resources from several sub-groups. Additionally, they are the first point of contact for the client. They are well-compensated, but they are also responsible for the whole of a client project.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#36

Post by Retric »

timsally wrote: post #10

The top rated comment on this question asserts that the reason why programmers have lower salaries is because they are logical, intelligent individuals who refuse to play the politics game and thus are hated by executives. Not only it this incorrect (have you seen the politics in certain open source software projects ?) but it plays into a narrative that programmers want to believe: business people are corrupt and pr…

Everything is a cost center even sales until you start looking at larger chunks of an organization. As long as you can demonstrate an increase in profit you can easily justify a huge salary regardless of what part of an organisation you work for. 'I did X which generated Y cost savings' works just as well as 'I brought in X business at Y profit margin generating Z profit.'

edit: Typical examples include research and development, marketing and customer service.[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_centre_(business)

PS: I updated the data entry screen, increasing our call center's throughput by 3% creating 5 million in savings over the next 3 years.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#37

Post by maudineormsby »

Hominem wrote: post #8

My PM is on vacation this week and I've had to partially fill in. I have been getting frantic urgent emails from roughly 7 am till 1 am. If this is what the guy puts up with, he deserves a couple bucks.

I crossed over from Project Management into Engineering, and my experience was that as a PM my job was to be bothered from Sunup til Sundown and periodically in between. I was expected to know everything about anything that I was asked about, and I was responsible for a large number of people's output without having any authority over them.

It was horrible.

I think the issue with the SO question is simply the view that what PMs and BAs do isn't 'real' work. They might not write code, but sometimes they're the only ones making it so the engineers can.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#38

Post by kyt »

imgabe wrote: post #28

Long story short, PMs are closer to the money. When you're managing a project, you know you have a budget of X dollars to get it done. If you get it done in X-P dollars, you can take that to your boss and immediately show that you made, or saved, the company P dollars. As a programmer or engineer, you may not even be directly aware of what the project's budget is, so it's harder for you to demonstrate how much value…

100% agree. It's always about how close you are to the money. The more direct value you provide, the more you get paid. This is why lawyers get paid so much, because firms know that for every hour they bill the firm makes $X dollars.

Programmers provide indirect value. If you architect a system that saves months and months of time later down the line, how do you value that?

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#39

Post by mrgreenfur »

Why do you think BAs and PMs get paid more? Is there any evidence? Anywhere I've worked they are very comparable for experience levels or the programmers get paid more. I think this is an inferiority complex based on not feeling 'cool' like the business guys. Other business roles likes sales and management (both tech and biz) get more because they have more responsibilities.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#40

Post by yashchandra »

zalew wrote: post #35
Hominem wrote: post #8

My PM is on vacation this week and I've had to partially fill in. I have been getting frantic urgent emails from roughly 7 am till 1 am. If this is what the guy puts up with, he deserves a couple bucks.

For receiving emails?

sure. try to be the first point of contact for a massive project for anyone under the sun including fellow developers, business users, IT heads, business heads, internal consultants, external consultants, SMEs etc etc. If you can handle all their queries (email/in-person/phone call/video conference), you certainly sir do not need your BA/PM.
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