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China's manufacturers are going broke

economist.com

31–40 of 229 posts

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#31
post #19

It feels like The Economist and other Western oligarch media have been saying that China is going to collapse "next week" for decades. Almost like they have some sort of anti-reality agenda.

I regularly read The Economist and it is not a flawless outlet but it does not and has not attempted to perpetuate any sort of collapse narrative about China. Individual opinion pieces with negative outlooks based on current global market context? Perhaps, but an overarching narrative of collapse just doesn't exist.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#32
post #25
post #19

It feels like The Economist and other Western oligarch media have been saying that China is going to collapse "next week" for decades. Almost like they have some sort of anti-reality agenda.

I can’t find that claim in the article.

If you look at the aggregate of The Economist's "reporting" on China, the GPs comment is correct.

One could even argue they are a Chinese asset because they mislead Western investors so fantastically and consistently on basic economic topics, a sort of Great Filter.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#33
China's manufactures finding the winners. This is the system working as intended - create many producers in xyz sector via subsidies, hardcore (involution) competition from 1000s in different provinces innovate manufacturing to bare margins, losers go out of business/ get bought up by better competitors and consolidate like _intended_ outcome of other PRC industrial policy. TLDR Set up competitive environment to force producers speed run to a $250 model-T while everyone else could only make cars for $1000. Have so much competition to force manufactures to improve processes/drive down prices/affordability in short time and then settle with a few large but sustainable survivors that are globally competitive / can (out)compete with western incumbents.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#34

Well, if they want to learn from the US, they should ship their manufacturing capacity and intellectual property off to their geopolitical rival for short-term monetary gain.

Those places are Vietnam and Africa, and it's already happening.

Vietnam and Africa are not their geopolitical rivals.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#35
post #18

> Hengchi, an electric-vehicle (ev) maker owned by Evergrande, a failed property developer, told investors that two of its subsidiaries had been forced into bankruptcy. The group originally aimed to sell 1m evs a year by 2025; amid feverish competition it sold just 1,389 last year. When you miss sales targets by 99.9% it’s got to be more than a competition problem

> When you miss sales targets by 99.9% it’s got to be more than a competition problem

It's fairly common across the EV industry in China.

BYD is an amazing product and makes good cars. The other manufacturers not so much, as is reflected in Chinese EV car sales [0].

That's why manufacturers like SAIC (MG Motors), GAG (Wuling Motors), etc have resorted to trying to export abroad because they cannot beat BYD domestically, but this faces hurdles as most other major markets abroad (VN, JP, SK, ID, IN, Brazil, EU, MX, etc) place tariffs on autumotiive exports, forcing Chinese manufacturers to either open entire factories abroad with JVs or quit those markets

Every factory SAIC, GAG, GAC, etc opens with a foreign JV is an equivalent set of jobs and IP lost in China.

[0] - https://autovista24.autovistagroup.com/news/big-boost-chines...

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#38
Genuine question, if they have so much excess capacity and low domestic demand, wouldn't it be easier to just export to other countries? Or are there barriers put in place in the world stage that limits this?

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#39
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not say that this is trivially corrected. The latest news from Boeing is that American manufacturing has been obliterated. Rebuilding the skill and culture that has been lost is neither easy nor guaranteed.

Not a good example because Boeing didn’t outsource. China flies Boeing airframes made in the US and has for the last 50 years. Boeing is an example of financiers running the company from an ivory tower on the other side of the country.

> Not a good example because Boeing didn’t outsource.

No, that's precisely my point actually. Boeing is one of the very few companies that maintained its local manufacturing capacity. (to say that they "didn't outsource" is not remotely accurate)

Despite everything that was pointing in Boeing's favor -- culture, financials, market, reputation; it was taken over by the MBAs that put McDonnell-Douglas into a nosedive and now all of that is gone.

So now, let's assume that Boeing sees the light and wants to rebuild their manufacturing chops. Who do they hire? Who can they hire, who has the manufacturing expertise? When I worked at Boeing 25 years ago, the old-timers were invaluable. Most of those folks are dead and gone; my generation should be graduating into old-timer-hood in the next couple of decades but Boeing hasn't invested in us. Wages have been stagnant, software is easier, tiktok is more exciting, and the young generation is used to being bossed around by MBAs who don't understand the work.

If not Boeing, the once-shining-example of American manufacturing what didn't outsource, who can bootstrap our manufacturing renaissance?

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#40

Well, if they want to learn from the US, they should ship their manufacturing capacity and intellectual property off to their geopolitical rival for short-term monetary gain.

Those places are Vietnam and Africa, and it's already happening.

In VN, Chinese manufacturers tend to compete directly with SK and JP FDI, so the RoI isn't too hot, and Chinese manufacturers face the same hurdles American manufacturers faced when entering China (eg. Forced JVs, ToTs, etc)
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